Just got to Plat playing ONLY SHACO AMA

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FOODFOOD

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Great thread. +1.

What do you do when the opposing Support is warding the **** out of bot. Do you just gank top/mid and ignore it, or try to force something?


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facetious

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
Dude's not kidding.

42-16 with literally just Shaco in Solo/Duo

Question: What build(s) do you typically use? What adaptations do you make based on:

1. Opponent team comp
2. Allied team comp
3. Good/bad start

Do you only jungle?
He always buys Trinity Force.


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MadKingThorn

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by smoggie View Post
do you get ticked off whenever someone runs towards the enemy as your trying to gank, then the enemy gets scared off and runs to safety?

i hate it when people don't know that shaco works with critical positioning.
Yes this does happen a lot and I usually have to tell my teammate(s) let me get right next to them with Deceive BEFORE You start running at them like a mad man :P. Sometimes people charge at the enemy the second i use deceive and don't let me use my stealth to position better haha.

Just make sure to tell your teammate to stop doing it or wait til you initiate first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voidian View Post
Triforce? Does it really work?

I've used a BC+tanky build several times, pretty strong at all stages of the game and it never feels like I lack damage to kill foes, even late game.

Also used IE+PD+tanky in other games when I got massively fed, never even thought about triforce.
When I play Shaco I don't like to sit in the middle of the fray just auto attacking the AD carry (no matter how tanky you build -- you aren't a tank :P). I like a more hit-and-run bursty type item build to let me get in do large damage ulti and then deceive out after running (probably being chased by the enemies for a bit).

The Black Cleaver is okay; but you need to auto attack a few times for it to be super effective where as Sheen + Trinity only need 1 auto attack for the full effect when you first go in. 2 seconds later throw shiv and auto attack again -- maximum damage output achieved then get out before you're dead xD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armaments View Post
Have they ever banned Shaco against you?
Yes =(. When I am in queue pick shaco people LOLKing me and if someone on the enemy team dodges or my own team and we get re scrambled its common for Shaco to be banned when someone on my original team is now the team captain there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inbred Taco View Post
Build?

How do you gank?

I Q over, put a box down over their position, crit them and let the laner take the kill.

How do you teamfight?

Thanks.
Look on Page 3 after Phreak's post I put my general build route there.

For ganking you have the right idea. The biggest thing is where you initially Q from. Pay attention to their wards and where they are over extended. Other than your own positioning when starting the gank (river, tribush, lane, or over the cliff by blue buff) you have the right idea Q over throw a box down not over their position but where you want to BLOCK them from going or where the jack in the box will force them to run a path that is less direct for a retreat. Crit them auto attack over and over and try to let the laner take the kill. If they flash THROW your E, if they dont keep auto attacking (the slow is the same from auto attack is it is from throwing it).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maligan View Post
Shaco revolves around percentage-based damage increases.

The primary points of Triforce for him are the % damage boost on ability use and the movement speed increase.

Not sure why the OP put so much emphasis on the slow, but I guess since it does offer a higher % slow than Two-Shiv Poison, it's nice to have in general on the occasion it does proc.
Triple slow with red buff so strong man! =P Trinity force gives you more movespeed (which is awesome with mobility boots), the Sheen procs (nice burst) extra health (<3 phage) some damage, some mana, and the phage slow.

I don't just emphasize the phage slow -- but it is awesome to watch a phage proc with your E and red buff and watch them move at glacial speeds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surisis View Post
do you enjoy pretending you are not a smurf?
Smurf and proud =P I just wanted to take up the challenge of playing only Shaco and was pretty confident it was possible. XWick is my main account; no shame haha. I am just sick of people saying he is a bad champ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iHostAIDS View Post
Dont reply! its a trap for a shaco nerf. lol no just kidding. but checking out lolking.. you average 9 assists per game. with about a 6 kills 3 deaths. Real teamplayer. your good.
Fact of the matter is a lot more champions scale better with gold (hello irelia) so of course, feed her the kills, get those dragons, and steal those barons! Soon Irelia can 1v5! :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by totaldominasian View Post
I always seem to get screwed by shaco when I place 2 boxes at wraiths, and then 2 boxes at red buff. The enemy team just pops the 2 boxes by wraiths and forces me out of red buff and I'm too oom/low to finish Blue AND steal their red.

How often do you start Blue first? Do you usually finish both your buffs before ganking?
First off, only place 1 box at wraiths around 1:47 (you can throw a box down at 1:30 near the river ramp to alert you of those ganks and 1 person by the tribush for the other). Then 3 boxes at red buff + then do the wraith camp. Just make sure your Mid + or bot/top lane are there to help you clear the wraiths you WILL need their auto attacks on all of the wraiths to finish them in time to do red.

And as for counter jungling, if they do counter jungle you -- just go to your opposite buff and ask your team [politely] for a smiteless leash. If they don't follow through and you *have to smite it then go ahead. Just finish your other buff without smite and base for health + more potions.

I start blue when they have a strong jungler who is hard to counter/gank. Udyr + Malphite come to mind off hand, I don't want to be in their jungle while they are at near full health attempting to steal their red. Because of this I will start blue then get my red and start ganking mid/bot aggressively (my red buff lasts longer since I got it 2nd).

If they have a weaker jungler (lets say Amumu in the early jungle phase, or Fiddlesticks for example) then I start red > do my blue (smite) and hop the wall to their red and hopefully catch them off guard for a (really easy) first blood :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by aahdin View Post
Can you run me through a typical gank? Like what do you start with, do you put down boxes before initiating, etc.
There are 2 types of shaco ganks for the most part. One is WITH boots of mobility, one is WITHOUT boots of mobility. For a gank without boots of mobility (lets say my first 5-10 ganks with just boots 1 (thats my opening item)) I will try to gank mid heavily and top lane (since they don't have wards). The distance from bushes/ramps to the center of midlane is also a lot shorter than jumping from the tribush/river top/bot lane. Midlane is my favorite lane to gank early on for this sole reason.

Once you get boots of mobility you can essentially ignore wards on a pushed lane. They aren't (normally) warding the area inbetween your inner and outer turret so you can actually deceive at your outer turret on a lane that is pushed by your enemy and reach them before your stealth wears out. Even if they had both tribush/river warded what good did it do them if you are constantly sneaking through the lane unseen :P.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthhelmet2193 View Post
I play Shaco a fair bit, but I've found I have difficulty against certain junglers. Mainly Udyr, and to a lesser extent Skarner and Lee Sin. Lee Sin's revealing property and ability to stick on people is annoying, which makes it difficult to safely counter-jungle him. This is avoidable though, by just not counter-jungling and only ganking lanes.

But what do you do in games against Udyr. He seems next to impossible for Shaco to kill 1v1 in the jungle. He has great mobility and is able to counter-gank extremely well. He can basically prevent shaco from ganking, and has a good late-game. The same is true to a lesser extent for skarner.

What do you do in games against these champs, or do you even worry about them?
Great question. These are examples of some junglers I would not be caught dead counter jungling early on (levels 1-4) They have shields, they are tanky, they clear the jungle fast, they are harder to kill. Against any of those junglers I start blue then go red and just focus on ganking and counter ganking.

Most of the time when I would counter jungle those junglers is if they are at top lane (i see them with a ward) I will sneak their blue buff or red buff (depending which team you are on). Likewise if I see them bot. Also I try to have Smite on cooldown at all times and I will very frequently go to their jungle smite their wraith while im en route for a gank to midlane or bot/top.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vcortis View Post
What if any changes do you think Shaco needs to be seen in competitive play?

As a plat player who loves shaco myself, I'm curious what your opinion is.
Shaco is a weird niche, and I think thats why you won't see him in competitive play a lot. He by no means is overpowered, or too strong. He isn't tanky enough to be in a "Bruiser" category, nor does he have enough flat burst to be considered an "assassin" his jungling is OKAY -- but shines through his ability for easy dragons and relatively fast barons. Plus map awareness is key and an enemy paying very close attention to the fog of war (looking for that orange cloud) can usually avoid most of the "common" ganks.

For competitive play they would have to upscale his late game in some what shape or form because his infamous "backdooring" tactic isn't that strong -- he does push slowly compared to others and his tower pushing isn't that quickly either (even though he has a clone doing a nice amount of damage as well). His teamfighting ability is pretty good later on -- but if you had a neutral early game or even a bad early game your late game is going to be a joke. You will have to split push most of the time because diverting 1 enemy from their 5 is better than you being in a 5v5 team fight (whoever they send to stop you would do more in a teamfight than you would).

Find a way to reduce the required need for a snowball and pave his late game transition and he'll be pretty solid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrKlinger29 View Post
Do you camp mid or camp top
Both! Whats better than irritating 1 enemy? Irritating 2 with nonstop ganks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zielmann View Post
How long until diamond?
Hopefully soon, but I am pretty busy. I'd love to get diamond before season 3, but I am not sure if I will have enough time to play through that many games to get there unfortunately!


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Rikter Iliaren

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Senior Member

10-09-2012

Where would be the best places to ward to defend against a Shaco gank if your playing mid?


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MrGrimm999

The Council

10-09-2012

Yea, I have a question...

Why on earth would you subject players to the annoyance that is Shaco.


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Pain Valak

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Junior Member

10-09-2012

Do you teamfight?


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Purgex

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Shaco is one of my favorite champs.
You're my hero.
I'm going to start playing Shaco more often haha.


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MauJustice

Senior Member

10-09-2012

+1 great thread


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EffortlessAction

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadKingThorn View Post
Thats right just hit plat playing only shaco. Any of you shaco players want some advice? Ask away!
Would you suggest a player who mostly plays tanky junglers and tanky mid (I mained jungled for a very long time) to try Shaco jungle? I played him on my smurf, and did fine clearing jungle (first clear is easy you can box it and you're good, clears after that are actually slower)


Some of my favorite champions are Swain, Rumble, and Fizz mid and Hecarim, Trundle, Skarner, and Nautalis in the jungle. I prefer tanky champions, or champions who can e very tricky. For example, I do not take flash on fizz. No reason too.


Is Shaco like a "Fizz of the jungle"? Would is lack of tankyness, that compared to hec/naut/skarner, be made up by his trickyness?


Can he carry late game? Can he tank late game? What do you do?


Also, what about your ult? I find when I play Shaco, I take one point into his ult at six, then never take his ult until the end of the game.


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MadKingThorn

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tengu Drum View Post
Where would be the best places to ward to defend against a Shaco gank if your playing mid?
When I gank mid most of the time I attack from my wraiths (either hop that wall if they are pushed near my tower) or from the ramp right next to the wraiths. Likewise I also do offensive ganks from the enemy wraith camps. They are the hardest to spot and the most effective. So TBH I'd try to ward near both wraith camps that reveal the ramps near them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGrimm999 View Post
Yea, I have a question...

Why on earth would you subject players to the annoyance that is Shaco.
Shaco is so fun thats why :P. Sorry to anyone else caught in the aftermath, but it is what it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pain Valak View Post
Do you teamfight?
Yes. Team fights usually consist of me going in (I do start a lot of team fights) on a out of position enemy, or straight to the backline to the AD Carry. Pop your ulti after your initial burst throw down a box and start running a little (Normally people turn around instantly on you, so you will need to hit and run until Deceive is up again).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purgex View Post
Shaco is one of my favorite champs.
You're my hero.
I'm going to start playing Shaco more often haha.
Haha glad I gave you some motivation ^^

Quote:
Originally Posted by EffortlessAction View Post
Would you suggest a player who mostly plays tanky junglers and tanky mid (I mained jungled for a very long time) to try Shaco jungle? I played him on my smurf, and did fine clearing jungle (first clear is easy you can box it and you're good, clears after that are actually slower)


Some of my favorite champions are Swain, Rumble, and Fizz mid and Hecarim, Trundle, Skarner, and Nautalis in the jungle. I prefer tanky champions, or champions who can e very tricky. For example, I do not take flash on fizz. No reason too.


Is Shaco like a "Fizz of the jungle"? Would is lack of tankyness, that compared to hec/naut/skarner, be made up by his trickyness?


Can he carry late game? Can he tank late game? What do you do?


Also, what about your ult? I find when I play Shaco, I take one point into his ult at six, then never take his ult until the end of the game.
When I first started playing Shaco probably a year and a half --> 2 years ago I sucked with him and I didnt play him for a couple months. I watched so many people dominate with him, but when I tried I failed miserably. After my few month break, I came back and was able to play him tons better.

He was very strange at first to get used to, but after a while I picked him up and had a natural talent with him. You might have some difficulty at first getting used to him if you are accustomed to playing tough-to-kill champs (swain + rumble as well as those tanky jungles) since you will over commit and stay in fights too long. You'll have to learn to be on the run a lot and just try to disrupt and confuse the enemy and diver their attention to you.

Carrying late game with Shaco is a matter of how successful you were earlier. I really doubt you will ever see a Shaco do what an Irelia or Olaf can for example and mop up an entire team single handed in a relatively short time frame. But he does have a good split push since hes hard to kill if you try to stop him and he can run to a team fight relatively close with ease letting him join in even though the enemy thought it was 5v4.

Shaco is an off-tank at best late game -- the tankiest i'll be is armor from Wriggles, Possibly Aegis/HexDrinker, and a GA. Other than that I am not going to be able to take the heat from multiple champions.

As for his ultimate, I always get it at 6,11,16. Your clone gets better damage reduction, % of your damage, and the blowup damage. I don't really see why you wouldn't want to level it more.