@BDSandM, Fujou and Mere Intricacy

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Jesus the Friend

Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fujiou View Post
This guy is a fucking homo. He says "two men fighting over a woman is pathetic." I don't understand that at all.
You should never fight over a vag, no matter how hot she is.

And it is indeed, quite pathetic...

I'm surprised at you.

Quote:
I'm all for men's rights, but this guy comes across as a bit of a misogynist. I also get a real kick out of how he only uses movie examples to support his claims about the real world.
I loled at "misogynist".
I would love to know at what point you came to believe that.
If you went by DICTIONARY DEFINITIONS, the espoused beliefs are equal to feminism.
We all know feminism isn't about equality, but strictly in terms of definition, he's the ultimate feminist.

One down two to go.
/taps foot


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Fujiou

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10-07-2012

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Originally Posted by Jesus the Friend View Post
You don't want people to cite practical examples? you want 100% theory?
That'd be pretty boring and far less impactful.
One ought to expect bias against men in an article that was probably written for a women's magazine. It's not necessarily right, but it shouldn't be surprising, and men's magazines reciprocate the action plenty.

I had many problems with this video, a few of which I've already listed. He seems to do the same as many feminists- seeing everything through the veil of sexual discrimination. Maybe he is really shy or something, but having a problem with the fact that a man is expected to propose is a bit absurd. There's nothing really harmful in it, and it's a thing that exists only thanks to tradition. Looking at it from the woman's perspective, we could easily turn the argument on its head and say something like "It's unfair that we aren't allowed to propose and we have to wait for the man to do it."

While I think men are being discriminated against by law-makers and to some degree by society in general, the examples that this guy uses are petty at best and fictional at worst. When your strongest arguments are coming from Groundhog Day, you might want to evaluate your ability to make a convincing video.


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Fujiou

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10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus the Friend View Post
You should never fight over a vag, no matter how hot she is.

And it is indeed, quite pathetic...

I'm surprised at you.
I still don't understand. Perhaps I could be persuaded if you provided some reason that you find it pathetic.

Fighting over ideal mates is more or less the natural order of things, and in general, fighting for what you want is something that I would consider masculine and in no way pathetic. I try to avoid violence when possible, but in some cases it is the only way to resolve conflict, and I see no shame in physically dominating another man to take from him what you think should belong to you.


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Sailor Cosmos

Senior Member

10-07-2012

For the most part, I agree with Fujiou.


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Fujiou

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10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus the Friend View Post
One down two to go.
/taps foot
Oh no babe, I'm just getting warmed up.


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Jesus the Friend

Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fujiou View Post
I had many problems with this video, a few of which I've already listed. He seems to do the same as many feminists- seeing everything through the veil of sexual discrimination. Maybe he is really shy or something, but having a problem with the fact that a man is expected to propose is a bit absurd. There's nothing really harmful in it, and it's a thing that exists only thanks to tradition. Looking at it from the woman's perspective, we could easily turn the argument on its head and say something like "It's unfair that we aren't allowed to propose and we have to wait for the man to do it."While I think men are being discriminated against by law-makers and to some degree by society in general, the examples that this guy uses are petty at best and fictional at worst. When your strongest arguments are coming from Groundhog Day, you might want to evaluate your ability to make a convincing video.
The guy's main body of work consists of pointing out examples of misandry in the media, he has a huge video series about it.

Aside from that... no one forbids women to propose, there is literally nothing stopping them, so your argument is flaccid. Women can propose to men np.

My main point was with his beliefs regarding marriage, not the examples cited.
Apparently you didn't get the same from the video that I did.
The message I got was "Marriage is a series of double standards in which the woman wins and the man loses".

You are correct in your overall assessment though, it's a very 'light' video.
If you want some harder juice, here is a link for you to one of my favorite MRA videos.
Here is another great one from the same user.
One more.

I wouldn't want Mere or BDSandM to watch those though, they're soaked in a bit more extreme MRA rhetoric.


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Jesus the Friend

Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fujiou View Post
I still don't understand. Perhaps I could be persuaded if you provided some reason that you find it pathetic.Fighting over ideal mates is more or less the natural order of things, and in general, fighting for what you want is something that I would consider masculine and in no way pathetic. I try to avoid violence when possible, but in some cases it is the only way to resolve conflict, and I see no shame in physically dominating another man to take from him what you think should belong to you.
If you must fight, you should fight for something worth fighting for.
Women are not worth fighting for.
Getting into a real fight for a woman displays extreme desperation.
I used to be a very violent person, but I would never fight for a woman, even in the days where I would get into fights regularly...


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Fujiou

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10-07-2012

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Originally Posted by Jesus the Friend View Post
Aside from that... no one forbids women to propose, there is literally nothing stopping them, so your argument is flaccid. Women can propose to men np.
Incorrect. Yes, women are capable doing it, but it would still be in stark violation of societal norms, which are basically the focal point of the entire video. To simply ignore them in your own argument is pretty fallacious. A woman is as capable of proposing to a man as a man is of walking the aisle in place of the bride.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus the Friend View Post
My main point was with his beliefs regarding marriage, not the examples cited.
Apparently you didn't get the same from the video that I did.
The message I got was "Marriage is a series of double standards in which the woman wins and the man loses"..
The message itself was pretty muddled. Your claim is nearly as strong as the entire 12 minute video, as he provided no evidence, and actually hardly even touched on the subject of marriage. I do agree with you that the tangible benefits of marriage are pretty limited. It also seems reasonable to conclude that many people get married because they feel the need to, but one must wonder how much of this is truly societal and how much of it is founded in biology.

If you're repulsed by the idea that as a man, you're expected to romance the woman, I don't know what to say to you. Such is the way the world works, and it hardly seems a great misfortune for us guys. If it's any condolence, the trend seems to be dying out to some degree. If you're more worried by the idea of a woman marrying you and subsequently divorcing and leaving with all of your money, I'd suggest a prenuptial agreement.

Gender equality is in a strange place right now due to women's changing role in the world. To look at the problem from an entirely male perspective is as flawed as looking at it from a female perspective. There is a reason that the man is expected to do the romancing. Traditionally he controlled all the wealth, while all the woman really had going was her body. While this has changed, the tradition lingers vestigially. Without an extant reason for its existence, I suspect the process of romancing will become mostly homogenized within a century or two.


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Dobagoh

Member

10-07-2012

JtF sux cox


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Jesus the Friend

Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fujiou View Post
Incorrect. Yes, women are capable doing it
At no point, did you, or the video or myself make reference to women's capability being limited to the point where asking a question would be beyond them.

Either you completely missed the point or you just pulled a strawman argument.

Quote:
but it would still be in stark violation of societal norms
I'd love to see the official book where those "societal norms" are written.

What's that? it doesn't exist? then they don't exist, you are making it up, there is no "violation of societal norms" if women propose to men.

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which are basically the focal point of the entire video.
Actually the point of the video is to highlight misandric ideology.

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To simply ignore them in your own argument is pretty fallacious.
Based on...?

Do you have an argument in there or did you just REALLY want to use the word "fallacious"?

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The message itself was pretty muddled. Your claim is nearly as strong as the entire 12 minute video, as he provided no evidence, and actually hardly even touched on the subject of marriage. I do agree with you that the tangible benefits of marriage are pretty limited. It also seems reasonable to conclude that many people get married because they feel the need to, but one must wonder how much of this is truly societal and how much of it is founded in biology.
Evidence? what?

That doesn't make one iota of sense.

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If you're repulsed by the idea that as a man, you're expected to romance the woman, I don't know what to say to you.
I'm capable of playing the game, but the game itself is extremely misandric.

"Romance" in modern times is basically either playing the game or reward-less slavery.

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Such is the way the world works, and it hardly seems a great misfortune for us guys. If it's any condolence, the trend seems to be dying out to some degree. If you're more worried by the idea of a woman marrying you and subsequently divorcing and leaving with all of your money, I'd suggest a prenuptial agreement.
Prenuptial agreements are not a "get out of marriage free" card.
Men with Prenups are routinely screwed over in divorce court.

Quote:
Gender equality is in a strange place right now due to women's changing role in the world. To look at the problem from an entirely male perspective is as flawed as looking at it from a female perspective.
There is no "male" perspective, there is only reality.

The pinnacle of feminist ideology is to implement emotion as law.
The pinnacle of MRA ideology is to fight rampant misandry via the radical notion that men's rights are human rights... reality as law.
This extends to marriage as well.

So let me summarize the video;
- He starts talking about divorce, which really should be at the end but I digress.
He talks about divorces favoring the female.
- The video continues with the author talking about the pre-wedding nonsense like proposing, buying a ring, etc.
Those things are 100% one sided.
- After that he talks about the actual wedding ceremony.
- Then he does get slightly off track and starts to discuss the actual process of courtship, or what passes off as courtship in today's world.

He raises some excellent points and I agree with all of them.
The general theme of the video is;
Marriage and relationships are for women and men gain nothing.

You haven't taken the red pill, but I hope that someday, you will.