[Champion Remake] Viktor, the Machine Herals

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CardianChevalier

Senior Member

10-07-2012

I'm not going to respond any more because clearly you won't listen and you think very highly of yourself and look down on anyone who thinks differently. I'm not the person in art class who refutes criticism by saying "I worked hard on it" I'm just saying thats something to take into consideration. Hopefully by ignoring any future responses, this thread will die and I wont have to see it anymore. Good day, and good luck.


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ItemsGuy

Senior Member

10-07-2012

In other news, this thread has accumulated over a page and none of that has to do with the champion the OP was about.

If anyone has any thoughts on remake!Viktor, feel free to post them, provided you actually put some sound thought into it.


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killertomato9

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Kha'Zix was meant to be "the most evolved champion on the fields of justice", so the evolution points make sense in my opinion.


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ItemsGuy

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by killertomato9 View Post
Kha'Zix was meant to be "the most evolved champion on the fields of justice", so the evolution points make sense in my opinion.
"He's evolved because Riot says he is XD"

Nothing about his design implies evolution (technological advancement, however, does). Hell, his "evolution" gimmick isn't even evolution-y at all--you don't evolve different things to deal with different situations, tailoring your playstyle to match theirs. It's the gameplay equivalent of just putting another point into his abilities, which all more or less fall together so he can do the same thing. Even evolving him isn't a question of "what should I specialize in," but "what should I max first," or "what ability should I not evolve." It was an interesting gimmick but it was executed poorly and doesn't fit the champion.


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Bliztron

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItemsGuy View Post
Read: "I own really hard at this champion why did you change him!!!!!!"

And how is he not unlike the other mages? He is a mish-mash of magic damage-dealing abilities with a bit of utility thrown in. You know who else is? Ahri, Anivia, Annie, Cass, Fiddlesticks, Karthus, Kassadin, LeBlanc, Malzahar, Mordekaiser, Morgana, Orianna, Ryze, Swain, Veigar, Viktor, Xerath, Ziggs, and Zyra. When "throw down all your abilities as quickly as possible" becomes the only facet of your gameplay aside from a few throwaway gimmicks (such as Syndra's "throw down two seeds for a bit of extra damage" mechanic), that's where good game design is spit upon and thrown out on the street. There is nothing new about Brand. There is nothing characteristic about Brand. If, as a new player, you looked at his design, you would not be able to guess at how he played. One might think, "oh, this guy is fire, he probably sets people on fire and I know what fire does." That is not the case. What Brand does, is do a lot of AoE damage in a small period of time. That's not fire, that's not readability, that's not characteristic, and that's not good game design.

Brand's combo "gimmick" has little to nothing to do with him. If somebody is affected by you Innate and you throw a fireball at them it...stuns them? If you hit them with your AoE it...does more burst damage? The only part of that system that worked was the spreading effect, but even that wasn't done as well as it could have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ItemsGuy View Post
I don't care about upsetting people. You can spend 100 years lovingly crafting a boat, but if that boat doesn't sail as well as it could've with 100 years of work, I'm going to criticize you on it and then proceed to build a better boat. I don't care that people have worked long and hard on these champions. If they're doing it without the knowledge required to make it the best they can be (or at least facing in that general direction--I do not claim to have perfect knowledge of game design, but I do know the direction one must take in order to begin to make something the best it can be), I'm going to be loud about it, and I'm going to bust my ass until I'm in a position to drag this game out of the mud, polish it off, and set it in the right direction before going off to make my own games.

You are certainly not a person that is built to give or receive critique, as most unperceptive people are. You're that person in art class that tries to refute everyone's critiques on critique day with such comments as, "but I worked really hard on it!" or "you don't understand, that's my style!" If your grasp on perspective is lacking and your proportions are way off, you're going to get called out on it. You are then expected to either fix it or use that knowledge to make your future work better. That's how adults work.

Now, I trust that Riot Games Inc. is a company run by adults. That's really the only way they'll survive as a company--should they deny faults when they're brought to their face, taking the "I don't like this because it means I'm wrong and there's no way I can be wrong" approach, LoL will be devoured by a younger, hungrier game that takes its design seriously and is uncompromising in its march towards constant improvement and positive growth.
I have three honest questions for you.

A) Why do you focus purely on flaws and not pay any attention to a champions base form and spirit, alongside what people truly love about Riot's game. Why do you NOT focus on the factors that have made millions play a FREE game and spend MILLIONS of dolloers on? Why do you IGNORE the base fundementals of the champions that cause so many to find joy in the game? What you are doing is tring to mish-mash everything together and call it bad because something is similar to something else.

B) Why do you discredit everyone else as "not being able to take critism", while you cant take anything yourself? Why do you see yourself in such a higher light then everyone else, INCLUDING Riot itself? If you don't think Riot can do a good job, stop playing, try to make your OWN game with your OWN ideas, and see how that works out.

C) Do you f*cking have emotions, or are you just some robot who "studies a players psycology"? Im serious. Us humans actually acre about what others feel and don't be d!cks, and don't fully prioratize our own ideas over everyone elses.

Bonus Question) Do you have a job?



If you cared about anything at all, you would AT least just step away. admitting that this forum dislikes your ideas. It would be even NICER to ACTUALLY look at the game and focus on the positive things. If you didn't change almost every single thing about achampion except keeping a few core mechanics, i think people would actually listen. If you weren't remaking a game that thousands play and ENJOY the way it is, I myself would actually just ignore you. But you can't. You ahve to ignore this forum and cause strife and anger to spread throughout. You have to hang like a dark cloud and block the sunshine on these growing buds of concepts. You ahve to shd your bluffeting ice, and wither away all happiness within.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItemsGuy View Post
Now, I trust that Riot Games Inc. is a company run by adults. That's really the only way they'll survive as a company--should they deny faults when they're brought to their face, taking the "I don't like this because it means I'm wrong and there's no way I can be wrong" approach, LoL will be devoured by a younger, hungrier game that takes its design seriously and is uncompromising in its march towards constant improvement and positive growth.
You basically just described how you are acting. "should they deny faults when they're brought to their face, taking the "I don't like this because it means I'm wrong and there's no way I can be wrong" approach, LoL will be devoured by a younger, hungrier game that takes its design seriously and is uncompromising in its march towards constant improvement and positive growth."


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Bliztron

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by LightningAcorns View Post
Hey guys let's actually not talk about the changes he made to Viktor and criticize his other designs without explaining why other than "They were strong already, so why do they need a change?" and "Riot knows what they're doing because they make money."
That comeback on a different account was both sad and pitiful.


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Ward VG

Member

10-07-2012

I looked over all your remakes.. so far all of them have been bad.. not a single one have done anything right. Just.. stop, before you humiliate your self more.


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Karthus Press R

Member

10-24-2012

i read your rework.
here's some criticism.

changing the positions of death ray and transfer.
no big deal but that's the point. why bother switching these two?
long term viktor players will just get confused starting out as this new "viktor"

changing vik entirely:
ok i don't get that. Vik's an aging man who's got no combat experience.
make him a bruiser you say? yea i don't think that makes sense.
and don't say riot should just have a lore change. Vik's got one of the best lores in the game.
besides there's way too many bruisers out there. what made vik unique as a mage was his capacity to outrange other mages with his e during laning phase and popping his w during team fights to stun the enemy team without them realizing what just happened. he can be used as a semi assassin, poking enemy squishies with his e and last hitting with either his q or his e. one on one, he can take out most champs while bursting with his w then r then q then e then ignite then q again if they survived the onslaught.

His new ult.
people aren't really gonna use the varied evolution mechanic, since you made the death ray way too op (two death rays? that's too much. and increased width? he's gonna end up being darius'd and taking no skill to actually play) you say that people will always chose augment death, well same goes here, they'll always pick that cause now it's op as hell. not to mention ap per minute? way too much. add to the fact that now he has 6 item slots as well, he can get more items.
more items = more ap + augmented death ap bonus + another augmented death ap bonus = op as ****.
oh and another thing. you took out chaos storm. vik was always valued for that cause it silences people and deals dam over time AND it follows people. One of the best ults in game for a mage. this new ult isn't as good. specially since ray's cd is down to 9. a lot of vik players use cdr runes on him. death ray is way too powerful in your version. very few cd, and an ult that refreshes it's CD? that's op. oh and Glorious Evolution! ? that name's doesn't fit it. sounds cliche.

OOOOH and isn't there a champ that refeshes a skill cd already as an ult? hmm? *cough* lb *cough*

basically i agree with alot of people that this rework is bad.
not cause i want to spite you but because it made vik an OP champ.
you're talking all about gimick and what not but in reality
vik's gimmick suits him perfectly.
he deals tons of damage but when caught and focused, he's usually ****ed. forcing players to carefully plan how to assist in team fights.
it actually takes a SMART player to play a SMART champion.
unlike what you're doing buffing his death ray as hell.
and taking out his ult. i mean really? that ult has saved my teams from nunu and karth ults way too many times.
vik is a champ that kicks ass already, he's unique because his kit can be used in sync with each other for burst or u can just use death ray to harass with tons of damage.
the only thing that's good here is that he can finally have 6 items. that's the rework we need.
take some criticism instead of criticizing your critics.

in conclusion since you're probably going to be so full of your self and not read everything:
ray and transfer switch was a stupid idea if they're just going to be having the same core mechanic.

ult change sucked. it's a leblanc copy. his old ult helped in teamfights and allowed you to secure some kills and forcing whoever you used it on to retreat or to die.

augments are op as hell. specially the death ray augment. oh and add to the fact that there's MORE ITEM SLOTS available. and you added ap per minute. late game, vik will destroy everything.

ap bruiser? no. just no. he's a mage. keep him a mage.

every champion has their flaws. vik's no exception. but he's no evelynne. he's viable and useful especially in teamfights. a full rework totally does not make sense.


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Grann Brigitte

Senior Member

10-24-2012

All Viktor needs is a small ult redesign. Personally, I would like to see his hex core choice change his ultimat:

Red: His Ult is gaurenteed to do 50%(?) of it's maximum damage over time to enemies struck by the initial burst, regardless of position.

Yellow: His ultimate speed does not diminish based on distance, and deal's it's damage over time over a concentrated duration

Blue: His ultimate generates a secondary gravity field which travels with it for the first 1.5 seconds.

This would also reward viktor for upgrading any core other than Death.


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