The Lore That You Deserve

12345 ... 7
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Eserine

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Have you ever come across this story before?

If you had a chance to speak to this women as she began to perform her work, what would you say to her?

I ask this because many players feel that this same sort of alteration is currently occurring with the poor lore rewrites of Katarina, Warwick, and Soraka (and soon several other champions, together with a worrying larger "lore expansion" that holds no promise of better quality).

The lore department has demonstrated an unwillingness to entertain any deeper story criticism of their actions by players during this process, and they have placed themselves, disturbingly, in a constructive position beyond all reach of reproach or intercession.

When a committee came together this year at the BIC pen Corporation that decided to re-release their standard writing utensil model in a special "for-women-only" version complete with ridiculously patronizing and offensive "girly crystal grips" and "fashion ink", customers could choose not to buy the awful product as a means of expressing their disgust, while simultaneously placing condemnation of the product directly upon the medium where it was purchased. Here in the game LoL, a player, if inspired by interesting lore in the past to buy champions with real money, will be limited to three "no-questions-asked refunds" when the lore for champions gets changed, and after this (according to the newly modified user agreement) would be limited in their dispute to a binding process of individual arbitration where they could not collectively pool refund efforts with other players, cite previous intellectual property findings writ into judicial proceedings (or if they win have the result apply to other players), or navigate what the Riot legal team itself cites as being criticized as a Byzantine and ineffectual system, all to the benefit of a company employing expensive and discrete professional legal council, to the distinct disadvantage to the average player of the game:

Quote:
Even when efficiency is achieved, some critics argue, the price is a lower quality of justice, and it can be made worse by the difficulty of appealing an award. The charge is frequently made that arbitration only results in "splitting the baby"—dividing awards evenly among the parties. The AAA roundly rejects this claim. Yet even arbitrators agree that as arbitration has become increasingly formal, it sometimes resembles litigation in its complexity. This may not be an inherent problem with the process as much as a result of flawed use of it. Parties may undermine arbitration by acting as lawyers do in a lawsuit: excessively demanding discovery (evidence from the other side), calling witnesses, and filing motions.
You could complain on the lore forums of course if you hate where the lore has completely changed the characters you used to like and once spent money on, but here (as one can read in easily in the Revised Lore AMAs) player concerns or writer commitments are swatted aside with ignoring-strategies and casual disinterest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotRunaan View Post
Hey everyone,

I'm sorry I haven't been able to get back to this today, we've been pretty busy around here. I know there are more questions to be answered and I'll get to them as I am able!
(dated 2 full weeks ago, now off the front page)

Instead, in the most indirect possible response to players, we instead have Kitae totally redefining what constitutes an acceptable canon, further going on to emphasize that all challenges to this process or the chosen conceits of modification are "unconstructive"

Quote:
Originally Posted by kitae View Post
We don't do this because of pressure,
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitae View Post
we're not going to decide lore by polls. The input will come through constructive and honest conversations with players in this forum and in other places. We encourage players posting constructive threads to discuss lore and we do read those.
Through all of this there have been posts, seemingly from a few fellow players (if they aren't RIOT smurfs), that strikingly GO ALONG with this new course in the lore, and it is to these individuals that I write this thread now, because reading their comments in this forum I have not been able to understand WHY they think the way they do about the issue, but truly in their positions they deserve the lore they will receive in remaining part of this game.

Commenter Group 1:

"Any additional lore, no matter how bad in quality, is preferable to no further lore".

Better to have polio than boredom? While acknowledging the obvious flawed nature of recent lore, the innate logical fault in their argument makes little sense, why would destroying previous entertaining lore in order to give room for terrible lore be a good thing?

Commenter Group 2:

The new lore isn't bad, just different:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerubois View Post
I just find this a little uncalled for and rude. :/

Complaining is one thing, and gets your message across just fine. Riot gets the point, and changes their opinion when they see they've made an obvious mistake, as with Katarina.

Here, it isn't a mistake. It's just a change. It has its ups and downs. You're focusing too much on the downs.
Ups and downs? Really?

Commenter Group 3:

The new lore just makes more sense:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razekal View Post
Honestly I like how Riot is trying to improve the old bios.

Look at the initial bios for Soraka and WW. Raka "cursed" WW, granting him all that shapeshifted power at the expense of losing her divinity. Soraka screwed up big time and loses a chunk of her power, and only made WW stronger and better at what he does. Compared to now, WW has a valid reason for wanting Soraka dead, and a valid reason for becoming what he is. Also, it helps put Singed in the limelight as the league's head Alchemist; before I always wondered why WW didn't just chuck poison vial at people or something being another chemist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akesgeroth View Post
I hate, and I mean HATE retcons. But not only is the new lore better, it also makes more sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hussarlance View Post
New Lore is just better.

How can you care if WW is no longer Singed's mentor? They are still freidns and their relationship makes WAY more sense now. Making WW an alchemist in addition to a hunter felt like unnecessary bulk.
etc. etc.

"freidns" are much better than Singed being torn between a sense of loyalty to Warwick while simultaneously being tortured with the thought that he would never be regarded as a superior chemist had the transformation not taken place! What "bulk"!

beyond this of course is the long-absent clarification

Quote:
Originally Posted by kitae View Post
[*]Current canon - he's a bounty hunter who chose to become a werewolf so he'd be strong enough to bring down incredibly powerful targets like Soraka.[/LIST]
Warwick must rip out the heart of Soraka... so that he can become powerful enough to rip out the heart of Soraka?

but now, even using the enhancement potion affording him increased power (instead of relying on cunning), he is not imbued with enough power to rip the heart out of even a diminished and mortal Soraka to stabilize his metamorphosis for some reason, and he must join the League of Legends, but still can be killed by Soraka, and cannot rip her heart out ever during fights while she lays prone on the ground, because... Uh...?

Well, wait, perhaps Celestial Soraka was beyond the power of any mortal human!

Yet on second thought, Mortal Jarvan the 4th in his lore (and seemingly Vayne) were strong enough as humans to slay gargantuan and malefic dragons without the need for magical enhancement, and further champions in the League such as Caitlyn or Tristana or Garen, or Xin or Draven or Darius or Miss Fortune merely rely on average hunks of metal to regularly defeat aspects of the mighty Baron Nashor, Dragons, half-dragons like Shyvana, unthinkably powerful mages and elementals like Xerath, or Syndra, or Brand, arcane warriors like Jax, or even creatures billed as THE ULTIMATE PREDATORS like Kha'zix or Rengar! How would any of these characters ever succeed in battle when a successful and strong bounty hunter like Warwick couldn't even fight a single glade priestess as a normal man?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kitae View Post
we want you guys to determine what is canon, not us!
Oh great! So because this all makes "so much more sense", we together as the player community should really decide upon what we will tell incoming players who wish to ask about this lore in the future:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Possibility 1: SINGED INSANITY: During the process of becoming immortal in his final series of original experiments, Singed suffered severe delusions, and in his haze of hallucinations gave every human-like champion in the League (both present and future), massive strength and agility-upgrading potions, similar to the ones taken by Warwick. He was throwing them out on the streets of every country as though he was manning a Thanksgiving Day parade float, to the dismay and despair of the entire ruling class of Zaun.

Possibility 2: JARVAN'S BUSY MATRESS: While seeming to be a normal man, Jarvan's Royal lineage has throughout Runeterran history actually been protected by the one true, real creator God of Valoran, as well, in destiny, as his eventual chosen bride. This gives Jarvan's family (and Ashe + Tryndamere) the indirect power of Deus Ex Machina whenever they fight a beast or difficult magical adversary, except that, as one of the first Kingly champions of something like the League, Jarvan's constant experiences with death during matches has warped his original sense of propriety to make him a irrepressible polyamorous hedonist driven at one time or another in the unspecified future to legally marry and conjugate with every non-magical humanesque champion in the entire game, thus extending Warwick-superior powers to all of them, where it just is an illusion that they might rely on gunpowder, animal familiars, or training that would have also been available to Warwick

Possibility 3:HORRIFIC MUTANT BIRTH-SWITCH CAROUSEL: Xin's parentage remains a mystery, but in fact he is not actually a human. There is a hideous secret race of time traveling Walrus-faced rapists, of unimaginable strength and memory-erasure magics. They are dimwitted, and as children delight in eating toxic paint-chips. They call themselves Kitaens. Xin's human mother was raped by a Kitaen, and likewise Garen and Lux, Caitlyn, Tristana, Corki, and all other non-enchanted human or Yordle champions EXCEPT WARWICK were also descended from the frenzied copulations of these disgusting and unthinkable horrors. It is only in this way that they were able to be accepted in Judgement to the League, and had Warwick not transformed, and instead attempted to use any tools or weapons to catch prey instead of completely altering himself to be like Mundo (oh wait no, I mean totally different than Mundo), than he would have met with certain failure, and would then as punishment be trapped, forced to roam his country regarded as little more than some sort of bestial monster (Uh... oh wait)

Possibility 4: LORETOPIA: Nasus, Twitch, Ahri, Rammus, and the countless other human animal hybrid champions (Manimals) all belong to a single nation where during adolescence teenagers merge, uncontrollably, with whatever animal they first happen to touch after their body begins producing a special hormone. All the human or Yordle champions who don't rely on magic also belonged once to this race, but in an unstated and incredibly obvious process each unmagical human champion took a potion similar to Warwick's transforming into a full human form, thanks to their famous national alchemist/Marmoset "Binged".

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Congratulations Lore Community! Only your support could have made these changes possible!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Grand Viper

Senior Member

10-06-2012

First and foremost, I agree with what you're saying.

I will say you went a tad extreme in the wording of your examples (as funny and ballsy as they were), but otherwise I agree with what you're saying. I'm not sure if I'm going to be stoned for voicing my opinion for agreeing with you, but I'm throwing my hat in with yours.

I want quality again. I want Irelia quality level lore again rather than Syndra lore.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

KuzAnn

Senior Member

10-06-2012

To be perfectly honest, I was laughing through your whole post. But you went too far with Possibility 3. I think you might end up getting banned for that. :/ And I agree with you, I want higher-quality lore again. I know Riot can do better.

So basically, these horrifying possibilities are the lore the LoL community deserves, but not what it needs? I'm scared.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Helvaen

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Thirdly, I find it strange that you do not mention Irelia's predicament.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Grand Viper

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helvaen View Post
Thirdly, I find it strange that you do not mention Irelia's predicament.
You mean in regards to Soraka? Not to offend people, but I'm on the lore forums. If I have to draw a basic comparison like that...That's a bit sad.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

DrTemptragon

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

10-06-2012

While I agree in general that Lore quality is descending, I feel that not only is your tone dismissive, you're not putting in any effort into understanding the changes and why they're of benefit to the Lore as a whole.

Face it, Soraka's original Lore was flat-out stupid. She, despite being nigh-omnipotent, cursed Warwick with a form that made him physically more able? Warwick underwent a massive physcological change when transformed because why not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eserine View Post
Warwick must rip out the heart of Soraka... so that he can become powerful enough to rip out the heart of Soraka?
This is dumb rhetoric and a blatent and deliberate misunderstanding of the new Lore.

The rest of your post descends into logical fallicies and assertions with no backup or evidence. Yes, Celestial Soraka was sufficiently powerful that she could've bested everyone else you mentioned later on, including living fountains of magic like Xerath. However, she couldn't do that without being kicked out of her Celestial Awesomeness Club. This part of the Lore hasn't changed.

All of the new Lore does exactly what Riot want it to do; opens up more possibilities in the world and makes the characters more consistant.

Right now, that's a bad thing, because it means each story has essentially a huge bundle of loose ends. But so far they've fixed their obvious and debilitating flaws (Jayce's original Lore) and I have faith that the plan they're working through will have benefits and help soothe these concerns.

It did screw up WW's relation with Singed, though.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Cerubois

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eserine View Post
Commenter Group 2:

The new lore isn't bad, just different:



Ups and downs? Really?
I'm flattered to be quoted so out of context, and countered with something even more out of context.

You're not wrong in your opinion, but you're exaggerating a lot. New lore might not be up to par with the old one. It might not be as complex and 'realisitic'. But we have yet to see where they're taking it. Perhaps they want LoL to be more streamlined and simplified, as that's what the game itself is meant to be in the first place.

Ima hold off complaining until I know all the facts.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Volkan

Member

10-07-2012

What facts? Its been two weeks since any of this has been addressed...

When will the facts be brought to light?

Soon


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Dracorya

Senior Member

10-07-2012

I think you're making a situation sound ridiculously worse then it actually is.

The sky is not falling...

And thank you @DrTemptragon for being a voice of reason around all this pitchfork and torch waving.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ThorRush

Senior Member

10-07-2012

I mean, lore changes aren't on the level of century-old monkey Jesus ... the old lore is still there. We can still go back and read it. It's not current canon, but it was canon at one point because it was "Riot published lore."

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=28098122#28098122
That does not mean previous stories told in the JOJ or earlier versions of bios are now invalid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=28099840#28099840
I agree with you, we need to get new ways of delivering lore content to you guys and archiving old lore. Until we have something official the league of legends wiki does a pretty good job.
I wouldn't recommend going over to the Fan Fiction forums with that attitude, yeah? Those guys used to be a part of this forum, and the fan fiction writers have fans who are still here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kitae View Post
If you can show how that is clearly concluded from Riot published lore by all means please do so!
Rioters know better than to engage in discussions with angry deaf people. We don't.


12345 ... 7