@Riot A serious discussion about gender. Please read

First Riot Post
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DJ Shyvana

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauhel View Post
That's great. I'm glad IronStylus is starting to listen. What really inspired me to create this thread, however, were two different Rioters participating in threads that mock and dismiss this topic. To me, they are encouraging bad behavior. When I heard Phreak say "more girls should play LoL" I thought "well maybe you shouldn't make fun of them when they talk about things that matter to them." Phreak himself didn't do it, and I know Riot as a whole doesn't condone this kind of behavior, but it's bothersome.

But that still falls to the pretenses of the vocal minority. Just like when males make reference to females who flaunt the fact they are female in chats when it serves no purpose. Just because a few jerk offs type in all caps does not mean that the rest of the community shares the same opinion. Honestly, most guys could care less either way. It takes to much mental exercise to waste the effort on meaningless squabbles when all we want to do is play a game.

Really try and look at it in a different perspective. How many times have you been complemented or even just ignored versus how many times you have been trolled? Every one always focuses on the negative experiences and then make decisions based on that.


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Venom Stoneice

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauhel View Post
That's great. I'm glad IronStylus is starting to listen. What really inspired me to create this thread, however, were two different Rioters participating in threads that mock and dismiss this topic. To me, they are encouraging bad behavior. When I heard Phreak say "more girls should play LoL" I thought "well maybe you shouldn't make fun of them when they talk about things that matter to them." Phreak himself didn't do it, and I know Riot as a whole doesn't condone this kind of behavior, but it's bothersome.
I understand what you mean. I think they mostly mean their behavior to be harmless, but it certainly can contribute to the problem. Some of it has to do with the anonymity of the internet; it's a lot easier to say something offensive over the internet than straight to someone's face. And it's also easy to unintentionally insinuate something negative when you really don't intend to.


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Maxnormal

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Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achenar View Post
Perhaps it's because, for no real reason whatsoever, they are alienating 50% of their potential market? The playerbase is predominately white males BECAUSE of the way the game is marketed. It's hard to expand that playerbase without, I don't know, appealing to other demographics.
You know, people like to complain about the low representation of women in the fields of hard sciences like physics and engineering and the like. Did you know that this is the result of women simply not wanting to go into those fields? That there isn't some grand conspiracy to alienate women and shoehorn them into kitchens worldwide?

Women and men are different no matter what ridiculous egalitarian myth you want to believe and generally gravitate towards different things. Why would Riot attempt to completely reshape their marketing strategy to reach a new audience when this strategy has been proven to work excellently?


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MTaur

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venom Stoneice View Post
And, believe it or not, Riot is attempting to influence society positively. IronStylus specifically is doing a lot of work for gender-equal representation in the game. Have you noticed how the last few female champions released have been less overtly sexualized? Thank IronStylus for that.
Have you noticed that in the last month or so, three splash updates have had starvation waists and/or broken spines? Did you noticed that Soraka used to look 45 and they made her look 19 and broke her spine in the splash art?

It's cool that Stylus is paying attention to gender representation and all that, but he's far from the only artistic influence in the company.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venom Stoneice View Post
I want to continue this discussion with you though; what do you think Riot should be doing to promote gender equality? I understand your idea of more sexualized male champion skins, but don't you feel like that might just contribute to the problem? Is there another, more constructive way for Riot to improve in this area?
To really balance it out, Riot would need to release a couple dozen skins like "Unprepared Garen" and some Varus clones. And they'd have to release another 40 Aviator Irelia-type non-stripperized skins.

But as I said elsewhere, if there were as many male stripper skins as female stripper skins, self-identified straight males would be all like, "ewwww gross, LoL is trying to make me gay." I personally would feel less comfortable with three male strippers in every game.

If the female champs were to get sexed up too far, then trying to explain the appeal of LoL would be like trying to explain why you read Playboy for the articles (-- que laughs and knowing looks --). As someone who has non-sexual reasons for liking LoL, I'd rather keep a safe distance from that territory.


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L2 Sentinel

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel View Post
About sexy male champions, females are going to find other things attractive rather than just showing skin (this might come as a shock to men).
Rugged Garen for instance is imo one of the more sexy male champions cause he's all badass and manly. Don't need to show skin for that.
True for some women. But True Blood is extremely popular amongst women because of all the topless men, so it's reasonable to think women can just as easily enjoy a guy showing off his skin.


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Ametsume

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Senior Member

10-06-2012

i'm still waiting for a wicked evil old witch lady AP cuz it would be BA


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MathMage

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xengre View Post
Anivia was in no way my only example.
Eve, Irelia, Fiora, Janna, Karma, Leona, Miss Fortune,Morgana, Riven, Sivir, Soraka (was human before), Aristocrat Vayne (not sure about default Vayne) area few that may arguably and very likely be 30+ in age.
Oh, come on. Paris Hilton is 31, but you wouldn't use her as an example of diversity in females as portrayed in the media. And using Eve and MF as statements about female empowerment in video games is absolutely laughable.

Where the **** is Granny Weatherwax, is what I wanna know.


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Logios

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Saying the female champs have no variety is a complete lie. This can be proven by simply looking at all the female characters.


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Xengre

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achenar View Post
Perhaps it's because, for no real reason whatsoever, they are alienating 50% of their potential market? The playerbase is predominately white males BECAUSE of the way the game is marketed. It's hard to expand that playerbase without, I don't know, appealing to other demographics.

Seriously. Yes, *** sells. Sexism tends to offend people, and thus doesn't sell. There's a difference between 'NO SEXY IN THE GAME EVER' and 'how about we try a more balanced approach to our characters', and it's the latter that's being advocated here.

For the record, I know I wouldn't be so bothered by the hyper-sexualisation of female champions if male champions got the same treatment with the same frequency - or if there was a higher rate of female champions with skins that weren't minidresses or Playboy bunny leotards.
Females likely do not make up 50% of their player base... as females usually avg 30-35% and less of the total gamer population in each region.
The original disparity was not caused by games being oriented towards "while males" but due to other cultural issues and stigmas between video games, gamers, and females during a given historical period in general (with the latter being the core issue). Since roughly the early 2000s the issue of content being primarily oriented towards a male audience has become much more prominent and is when this statement applies and this is largely fault due to women, themselves, not making up a significant portion of the gamer population or in creating the games (still very few females actually make games today in the industry). This is not a bad thing... nor is it a good thing. What is a problem is when women are sexualized in a disgraceful way (Barbie arguments do not apply here for numerous reasons I do not desire to get into at current). Then again this sexualization is more of an issue in media in general and not specifically related to games and is something that will hopefully be primarily resolved in time.


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NVe Datanksta

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Annie isn't too happy about the age thing.