@Riot A serious discussion about gender. Please read

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Ghosthree3

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Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauhel View Post
I didn't say there was anything wrong with sexually suggestive content.
"Karma is great. Her Sun Goddess skin is culturally appropriate, so I donít have any issues."
"Shyvana is pretty well done. None of her skins really do her an injustice."

These implied to me that you were offended by sexually suggestive content, saying that things that weren't were "great".

If this wasn't what you meant, I apologize and my post is somewhat irrelevant to yours, though I feel it contains good points regardless.


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Phyrexia

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Senior Member

10-06-2012

Ugh, this thread got me link hopping.

I didn't even know it was a thing to hold the idea that misandry doesn't exist. Or that it's impossible to be racist towards white people.

I'm going to go grab a drink, because if my brain is going to be in pain I want to be the cause of it,and not horrible logic.


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Bekkal

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauhel View Post
I didn't say there was anything wrong with sexually suggestive content. My argument is that there is something wrong with treating the two genders differently. Sexually suggestive women is perfectly fine as long as there are sexually suggestive men. That is, if you care about being inclusive. If you don't care about being inclusive, then maybe you shouldn't be saying things like "I wish X minority would use my product more."
In all seriousness, I don't think you've done an adequate job explaining your position. You mention comparisons like Twisted Fate vs MF/Caitlyn, but you're missing a few things.

There are more non-sexually-suggestive champs and skins that feature women than sexually suggestive champs and skins. Every Poppy skin, every Orianna skin, most Irelia skins, Ashe and her skins, most Sona skins, etc were all disregarded by you to make your point.

Furthermore, I think this issue is clouded by the fact that what men find sexually suggestive (stereotypically) tends to be more obvious than what women find sexually suggestive. Ryze, for example, has exactly one skin in which he is clothed - does this make him sexually suggestive? What about Tryndamere? I am certain there are women who have purchased Tryndamere skins just because they found them attractive. Yi works the same way.

Even beyond the above point, men frequently consume more products because of sexual suggestion than women do. It doesn't make sense to pander to a small subset of women that want sexualized skins when, in terms of overall sales, women are not marketed to in this way in equal proportion.

This is ultimately the problem with people bringing up this argument - beauty (and thus sexuality) is ultimately in the eye of the beholder. Your entire argument fails to be objective, and is very weakened by marketing strategies and trends in the real world.


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L2 Sentinel

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghosthree3 View Post
"Karma is great. Her Sun Goddess skin is culturally appropriate, so I don’t have any issues."
"Shyvana is pretty well done. None of her skins really do her an injustice."

These implied to me that you were offended by sexually suggestive content, saying that things that weren't were "great".

If this wasn't what you meant, I apologize and my post is somewhat irrelevant to yours, though I feel it contains good points regardless.
Ah, I see the confusion. I don't have a problem with sexually suggestive content, but when it does a disservice to the character's personality, it's a shame. Sun Goddess Karma shows skin, but as a diplomat, I would think Karma would partake in other cultures, and dress the way they dress. I don't think it does a disservice. However, as a political leader, I don't think she would participate in raunchy activities or wear something suggestive just for the sake of it.

Shyvana is so serious, giving her a skin that doesn't portray that just so she can be sexy would do her character an injustice, in my opinion.

You can pretty much get away with anything with Miss Fortune (theme wise), but it doesn't mean I approve of her latest splash art.


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Chilipapa

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoreanInNetcafe View Post
I don't understand that the people that design them try to appeal to the opposite gender? No way, i had no idea that this was something that everyone in media does.

So what you're telling me is that movies/shows/games purposely making characters that are attractive or appealing???

Alert the presses this insane!
It's a minority that even cares about what is on the splash screen. most people are too busy picking champs based on kits.

However, Riot can sell skins/champs by sexualizing them.

Quite frankly, *** sells. This has been true for a long time. Males are more likely to buy something as they are easy to cater to(boobs, butt. Simple)

This thread even manages to miss the true problem. It isn't the champs, it's the internet. Say you are female and you are immediately assumed to be incompetent, carried, and available for harassment.
Riot has been trying to clean this up for a while. People should be nice, respectful, and understanding. They are not. Welcome to the internet.


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Bekkal

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mittor View Post
Ugh, this thread got me link hopping.

I didn't even know it was a thing to hold the idea that misandry doesn't exist. Or that it's impossible to be racist towards white people.

I'm going to go grab a drink, because if my brain is going to be in pain I want to be the cause of it,and not horrible logic.

If you want a great example of misandry in action, Google it and read the Wikipedia preview, then search the actual article for any of the text found in the preview.

I'm pretty offended that the preview lists a completely subjective opinion that runs counter to everything actually contained in the article.


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L2 Sentinel

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekkal View Post
In all seriousness, I don't think you've done an adequate job explaining your position. You mention comparisons like Twisted Fate vs MF/Caitlyn, but you're missing a few things.

There are more non-sexually-suggestive champs and skins that feature women than sexually suggestive champs and skins. Every Poppy skin, every Orianna skin, most Irelia skins, Ashe and her skins, most Sona skins, etc were all disregarded by you to make your point
If I say 15 female skins look like they are adult entertainment workers, and 0 male skins looks that way, does it really matter if I say 40 female skins and 55 male skins do not look like strippers? Just seems like a waste of effort.


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Nasty Neighbor

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilipapa View Post
It's a minority that even cares about what is on the splash screen. They're too busy picking champs based on kits.

However, they can sell skins/champs by sexualizing them.

Quite frankly, *** sells. This has been true for a long time. Males are more likely to buy something as they are easy to cater to(boobs, butt. Simple)

This thread even manages to miss the true problem. It isn't the champs, it's the internet. Say you are female and you are immediately assumed to be incompetent, carried, and available for harassment.
Riot has been trying to clean this up for a while. People should be nice, respectful, and understanding. They are not. Welcome to the internet.
"Give someone a mask and they show their true face."

You can go ahead and force people to pretend to feel a certain way though.


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Bekkal

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauhel View Post
If I say 15 female skins look like they are adult entertainment workers, and 0 male skins looks that way, does it really matter if I say 40 female skins and 55 male skins do not look like strippers? Just seems like a waste of effort.
If you are seriously suggesting that Tryndamere, Ryze, Varus, etc do not look like adult entertainment workers, or that Garen, Olaf, Kassadin, etc are even remotely approaching what is achievable with the human body, then this discussion is meaningless anyway.

Frankly, you're proving my point for me with this kind of stance.


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Tspuun

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekkal View Post
If you are seriously suggesting that Tryndamere, Ryze, Varus, etc do not look like adult entertainment workers, or that Garen, Olaf, Kassadin, etc are even remotely approaching what is achievable with the human body, then this discussion is meaningless anyway.

Frankly, you're proving my point for me with this kind of stance.
A bare (in most of these cases, bulky and muscular) male chest is powerful; a bare female chest is sexy. It's not a perfect comparison.

Varus, though, is definitely a male character designed with *** appeal in mind. Imagine if the entire male human cast had that exact body type and a similar manner of dress, or if a large portion of the males wore codpieces, and maybe you'll see where some of the complaints are coming from.