@Riot A serious discussion about gender. Please read

First Riot Post
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Rachel

Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by herdsheep View Post
Well, on page 50-something I doubt this will ever really be read, but as I've posted in countless threads like this, I'll post once more.

In my experience, it is almost entirely guys and a very small fringe of radical feminists that argue this point. The girls that I know that play games pick characters larger in order of cute => sexy girl => sexy guy => monster => ugly guy => ugly girl. Now there is going to be a swarm attacking me for the terms "girls I knew" being entirely subjective and the term "ugly" instead of "varied" or whatever, but from my prospective that's just how it is. And before it gets brought up, yes, in my experience female gamers are much more likely to pick a character based on looks than anything else, especially early in their careers.

So yes, I think it does scare away a small fringe of radical feminists from the game to make the majority of the female characters sexy. I do not at all think it is responsible for scaring away the majority of a gender.

Quite honestly the majority of girls do not enjoy hyper-competitive games (in my experience). Again, flame on if it makes you happy, but this is my experience. Even in WoW where I knew almost as many female gamers as male gamers the vast majority of them did not engage in PvP (and when they did, only with the better PvPers in the guild to make sure were likely to win, and generally only very rarely or when trying to achieve specific PvP only rewards).

If I knew how to get women to enjoy PvP games. I don't know if that is cultural or something else, and we'll start seeing female e-Sport leagues, just as we have female sport leagues in pretty much all other sports now.
I don't know why you were downvoted considering what you say is very very true, and also based on personal experience, so at least its true to YOU


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Rachel

Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mittor View Post
The problem is, while the ideal of Feminism is pure and good, its most vocal and aggressive advocates are just so abrasive and caustic that it's hard to associate a positive image. Think of PETA. Treating animals with respect is a noble idea, but they take it to such extremes that everyone just rolls their eyes when they see/hear PETA in the news.

It's why we see things like "All men are rapists" or buzzwords like "mansplaining" and "rape culture". I'm all for equality for the genders and everyone else, but I'm not going to associate myself with a group that assumes I'm a felon based on my genitals.

Look at the Rebecca Watson situation. Ignoring the internet crapstorm that happened after (there were ugly things on both sides I don't like from that). The gist of the situation was that this woman was in an elevator at 4 AM along with a man. The man asks her if she'd like to get a cup of coffee. She say's she's not interested and he says ok and doesn't speak to her again and leaves her alone.

She then goes on the internet and tries to make some decree that he was incredibly creepy and oppressive for daring to talk to her. That he should have known better than to initiate conversation with a woman because she didn't know if he'd rape her.

It's this situation that formed my initial beef with what's wrong with feminism today. You don't get to just constantly yell at men and degrade them for "sl*t shaming" and being rape machines when the baseline for offensive behavior is *drum roll* talking to you.
I can agree with what you're saying. Feminism is kind of a dirty word these days.
That's why I'm really enjoying the almost counter feminist movement of "feminine" feminists who kind of tackle the old ideas of the feminist movement (for example, liking pink being anti-feminist). The unfortunate thing is that feminists have given feminism a bad reputation in the past so these new groups often don't get the time of day because they're stereotyped to hell.


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CorporateCommand

Member

10-06-2012

Women are oversexualized simply because the player-base is largely male, a good portion being younger gentlemen who see such traits and are immediately drawn to it. A simple marketing tactic to appeal to the lowest common denominator to insure profit. I personally want a creepy witch champion and a real female monster to diversify the roster of ladies. Anivia being the only real female monster makes her an oddity. I doubt the day when we can push aside our differences and just play a game without said differences dictating how we treat each-other is any time soon. I think its the possibility that insecure male gamers can get beat at a game by a woman that makes them so hostile, again the younger male player base most likely being the cause. All I can say is if you're insecure about a woman beating you at a game, you need to grow a pair and man up.


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Adumbro Deus

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Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mittor View Post
The problem is, while the ideal of Feminism is pure and good, its most vocal and aggressive advocates are just so abrasive and caustic that it's hard to associate a positive image. Think of PETA. Treating animals with respect is a noble idea, but they take it to such extremes that everyone just rolls their eyes when they see/hear PETA in the news.

It's why we see things like "All men are rapists" or buzzwords like "mansplaining" and "rape culture". I'm all for equality for the genders and everyone else, but I'm not going to associate myself with a group that assumes I'm a felon based on my genitals.

Look at the Rebecca Watson situation. Ignoring the internet crapstorm that happened after (there were ugly things on both sides I don't like from that). The gist of the situation was that this woman was in an elevator at 4 AM along with a man. The man asks her if she'd like to get a cup of coffee. She say's she's not interested and he says ok and doesn't speak to her again and leaves her alone.

She then goes on the internet and tries to make some decree that he was incredibly creepy and oppressive for daring to talk to her. That he should have known better than to initiate conversation with a woman because she didn't know if he'd rape her.

It's this situation that formed my initial beef with what's wrong with feminism today. You don't get to just constantly yell at men and degrade them for "sl*t shaming" and being rape machines when the baseline for offensive behavior is *drum roll* talking to you.
Because the crazies get the press, it's just for some movements people recognize them as the crazies and assume the rest of the movement is more reasonable, other times they act like the crazies speak for the movement. Usually the latter is when society at large just wants an excuse to hate on the movement.

Also the buzzwords mostly convey legit issues, they use the terminology to be attention getting though to a degree they have backfired.


Lastly, I will say odds are she reacted poorly because she suffered from sexual abuse in the past. That's why she was so scared.


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Phyrexia

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Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel View Post
I can agree with what you're saying. Feminism is kind of a dirty word these days.
That's why I'm really enjoying the almost counter feminist movement of "feminine" feminists who kind of tackle the old ideas of the feminist movement (for example, liking pink being anti-feminist). The unfortunate thing is that feminists have given feminism a bad reputation in the past so these new groups often don't get the time of day because they're stereotyped to hell.
It's pretty much running a parallel to modern religions. There is a ton of "no-true-Scotsman" going on these days and for someone who knows little to nothing about the issues and wants to find more, it's a shame that they'll probably be bombarded with hate and anger rather than facts.

The Westboro Baptist church is almost universally hated. Yet they still consider themselves Christians. Luckily, their behavior is so aberrant and destructive that the average person can use common sense and go "Yea, those people aren't normal." and not instinctively link Christianity and WBC together.

It may just unfortunately come to that with feminism and human rights. Letting the fringe extremist groups show their true colors in time while still fighting the good fight so that hopefully, sometime in the future, people can go "Hey, you're a decent person and your ideals are sound. Meanwhile that jackwagon over there wants to institute a law that says all males must be castrated and jailed. Obviously you're two different groups".

*fingers crossed*


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Dong Man

Master Recruiter

10-06-2012

Wait so you want them to make the girl champions less sexy? Why? Aren't you straight?


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chumbler

Senior Member

10-06-2012

^^^^ It's not possible to be straight and think there's more to women than just *** appeal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mittor View Post
It's pretty much running a parallel to modern religions. There is a ton of "no-true-Scotsman" going on these days and for someone who knows little to nothing about the issues and wants to find more, it's a shame that they'll probably be bombarded with hate and anger rather than facts.

The Westboro Baptist church is almost universally hated. Yet they still consider themselves Christians. Luckily, their behavior is so aberrant and destructive that the average person can use common sense and go "Yea, those people aren't normal." and not instinctively link Christianity and WBC together.

It may just unfortunately come to that with feminism and human rights. Letting the fringe extremist groups show their true colors in time while still fighting the good fight so that hopefully, sometime in the future, people can go "Hey, you're a decent person and your ideals are sound. Meanwhile that jackwagon over there wants to institute a law that says all males must be castrated and jailed. Obviously you're two different groups".

*fingers crossed*
When people hate women they have no interest in identifying that there are different groups. Why recognize that there are many legitimate complaints from reasonable groups when you can just conveniently claim the radical fringe represents all of it?


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Algebrax

Junior Member

10-06-2012

I never say Im a girl, cause Ive received comments like "Malphite is a girl, gg"
Once some1 said, "we have a girl, its 4v5 now, gg"
Has happen to me couple more times, mostly when I play solo normals, so I rather play with ppl from my country whom I know and I can totally go and coordinate with over vent or ts


And there is also the jerking comments, or ***** size comments, or anus status for visits... that are always there during the lobby or first 5 mins of the game, which can throw back a girl under the impression of a hostile and vulgar community. I? I only roll my eyes.


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MTaur

Senior Member

10-06-2012

OP is right. A thorough and close look at the overall trends reveals exactly that.

Stuff to add:

* Soraka used to look 45. New splash? She looks 19. And her spine is broken. Why all the broken spines, Riot?
* Cassiopeia is supposed to be so hideous that she can no longer function as the seductress of Noxus. But wait a minute, she's actually rather hot. She doesn't even have any ugly skins at all. She's supposed to be a monster, but she's not. She's a hot chick with a snake tail. They really could've had a hideous naga beast, but it's just unfathomable to Riot and their art direction.


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LexCor

Senior Member

10-06-2012

This is the most hilarious hour ever, scrolling through these 50 some-odd pages.

Players want appealing, thematic champions. Riot delivers. Video games are a marriage of art and business, and the business Riot's engaged in is predominantly with young to middle-aged males. I'm fully aware there ARE female players, but they DO NOT make up the majority, or even a reasonable sampling of Riot's clientele. Do most of the guys appreciate the attractive splash art, or flirty champions? From my circle of friends, hell yeah. It's like you're telling Activision to change their FPS shooter formula while it's still working. They've consistently outsold themselves over the past... What, 7 years? Yeah, won't be changing that.

And on the art side? The creativity? **** off. It is NOT their job to cater to narrow-minded, morally frail appreciators. They want to draw or display hot champions? Do it up, we love it. You don't? Well they got paid to do what they want anyways, and most of us aren't offended or worried about the imagined sociopolitical ramifications of sexualized pictures representing an in-game sprite.

Go home, social science major, you're drunk.