@Riot A serious discussion about gender. Please read

First Riot Post
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BerserkSheal

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by madjai View Post
Can you please explain to me what separates a person that violates the summoners code for verbal abuse compared to a person that violates the summoners code for abusing a female summoner because she's a girl?

It's still verbal abuse, and they'll still go to the tribunal, stop trying to white knight the cause because you just look like an idiot lol.
I don't understand why suggesting that any kind of player, male or female who is barraged by insults should use the mute function, or skype, or any other kind of prevention is apparently a grave injustice.

I will never understand it.


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Firellius

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by BerserkSheal View Post
And yet as I said, FUNCTIONS exist as Riot knew situations like that would arise from certain players.

If you don't wish to use them, what can I say? You can't expect civility on the internet nor when the player is anonymous.
I can, and I should.

You need to force the responsibility onto those people. They need to learn that what they are doing is unacceptable. You can't teach them anything by ignoring them or by telling people to ignore them.

Actually, you're telling them to just carry on.


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Senstrae

Senior Member

10-06-2012

I was going to make a big post summarizing that, the character sexualization can feel like a bit of an issue, but that Riot at least has some counter examples, even if it's not a completely even playing field. However, most of my thoughts got summed up by the two large posts on page 44.

I am personally far more bothered by the in-game harassment, than whether or not the skins are cut to be a bit too sexy. The most recent example was in a ranked game the other day. This guy, on his own, says to our team lobby chat:

"Are any of you girls?"
"Because if so, then I'm going to queue dodge."

A few minutes of bans and picks later, he's trolling a bit more, so I decide to mention that I'm female futilely hoping he'd actually keep his promise of dodging. He did not, oh well, whatever.

We get in game and almost immediately:
"/all Hey, go easy on Irelia. Since she's a girl."

15 minutes later, top lane was pretty stagnant, no deaths, I was 10 cs ahead vs Jayce lane. Me and Jayce start up a trade, and I happen to get ganked by Jax from behind my own tower. Short of some miracle Flash, I didn't have a way to escape two dashes, slows, and stun, and their own flashes. I die.

"See if you were a guy, you would have survived that gank."

My duo queue friend points out how ridiculous his statement is.

I plainly state, "This is the part where I report you at the end of the match."

"Oh come on, I was just kidding."

"I wasn't."

Continue for the rest of the match, I go 3-2-4, enemy surrenders. I report him after the game for the sexism and harassment. He leaves post game lobby. Our jungle Amumu speaks up saying, "I reported him too, because I'm a girl, and cant stand that sexist ****." My duo says, "Even though I'm a guy, I reported him as well, and you go girls."

Maybe I could have opted not to tell the troll. However, I felt like he actually needed to confront one of the people he was directly insulting. I shouldn't have to sit there while he batters around all females, and pretend it's a non-issue. I wasn't going to hide from some jerk insulting an entire gender, implying that their game ability is sub-par. That's ridiculous. Keeping silent about oppression is just as bad as endorsing it. We're not going to see change unless we stand up against what is wrong.

I don't normally even bring up the fact that I'm female in this game. People have this stereotype idea of "Girl Gamer" which is frequently mostly untrue. I play the game, and I'm also female. The majority of times gender comes up, is when my duo queue partner using pronouns in relation to me. Even then, most of those times I'm using a female champion, so it doesn't even give me away.

Yeah I get it, internet lol. "Go back to the kitchen" "Where's my sandwich" etc. And it's stupid that people don't even acknowledge there's an issue. Yes, the game is often hostile if not downright toxic in chat. Most of the time it's pointing fingers, and trolling. But I feel like insulting someone on the basis of gender, sexuality, race, culture, or anything of the sort is a line that should not ever be crossed.

People know not to bring up race as an insult. It's time people also know not to bring up gender as an insult. Harassment is something that should be addressed, not shrugged off, belittled, or ignored.


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BerserkSheal

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firellius View Post
I can, and I should.

You need to force the responsibility onto those people. They need to learn that what they are doing is unacceptable. You can't teach them anything by ignoring them or by telling people to ignore them.

Actually, you're telling them to just carry on.
No, telling them to carry on would be having no function at all to prevent insults, racism, or sexist remarks from ever reaching the intended target and saying "no rules".

But at the same time expecting people to abide by given rules is at best a dream. Have you ever used the Tribunal? Do you know why those people are being judged? Breaking the rules.


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Mere Intricacy

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Senior Member

10-06-2012

I don't think it's the range of champions that would appeal to a females...

I think the treatment of females is the problem...


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Cobber

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Knowing how pointless it would be to edit an earlier post;

@OP
I do not think you should include battle-bunny Riven as such an important example as it was a community voted skin and put in the game due to popular demand. While I agree with the points you are trying to make, I find that including this example is counter-productive to your argument.


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Zeriphor

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by BerserkSheal View Post
..really?

Their behaviour is unacceptable, but it's a fact people will act how they want regardless of who the target is.

Which as I will YET AGAIN state, riot implemented mute in the first place. To ignore players who have no regard for others.
So you feel that the community can never get better? That no matter what Riot or any of the players do, this game will still be plagued by abused?

I disagree with that. The honor system and the report system are great strides towards making this game more enjoyable for everyone.

Additionally, your attitude of blaming the victim of the abuse because they opened themselves up to it is unreasonable. No one deserves to be abused, and the person at fault is always the person that performed the abuse.


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Zeriphor

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by madjai View Post
Can you please explain to me what separates a person that violates the summoners code for verbal abuse compared to a person that violates the summoners code for abusing a female summoner because she's a girl?

It's still verbal abuse, and they'll still go to the tribunal, stop trying to white knight the cause because you just look like an idiot lol.
There is no difference. I merely specified gender because that's what this discussion is about. If you would prefer, I could go back to being more general, as I was in my first post in this thread.


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Venova

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mere Intricacy View Post
I don't think it's the range of champions that would appeal to a females...

I think the treatment of females is the problem...
That is the key here, and it's not something Riot can just flip a switch about, it takes more then that to change that kind of behavior. It takes players, it takes a willingness to change to be more decent to others, it takes an understanding by all that such a thing is not tolerated - and thats something Riot can do, is clamp down more on that kind of rudeness by players that really can alienate people - everyone who comes to this game should feel welcomed. We all love it, why wouldn't we want to welcome more people to it?


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BerserkSheal

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeriphor View Post
So you feel that the community can never get better? That no matter what Riot or any of the players do, this game will still be plagued by abused?

I disagree with that. The honor system and the report system are great strides towards making this game more enjoyable for everyone.

Additionally, your attitude of blaming the victim of the abuse because they opened themselves up to it is unreasonable. No one deserves to be abused, and the person at fault is always the person that performed the abuse.
Sigh, your statement is false. First off I wasn't victim blaming, but when you purposely want to ignore suggestions on how to avoid having sexist remarks thrown at you, what do you want me to say? It's practically fueling by fire. You have the option of ignoring their chat, something I was suggesting but to no avail because respect while being anonymous is somehow a given to you.

And yes, you`re damn right I believe the game will always be prone to people abusing others. We still have happen in real life, on the street and in our daily lives. You think the internet negates it all and respect is all but expected from people?

Tired of repeating myself, I`m not continuing this childish back and forth. We have differing opinions.