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@Riot A serious discussion about gender. Please read

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Shaella

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Well you said it better than i could


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SufferNot

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Kaalika:
I did buy Sona, who is possibly the most sexualized, however it was mostly because I love the musical aspect.

Again, I'm going to challenge the notion that Sona is sexualized. She doesn't do anything sexual, she doesn't say (through telepathy) anything sexual, and she doesn't dress in a sexual way. Her pose in her splash art is her standing there playing music. Her animations in the game are her floating around playing music. Her dialogue lines are all pure business. Her dress is a blue strapless gown with a treble clef on it, which is a somewhat traditional thing for female musicians to wear (generally it's either white or black because that has better synergy with the lighting present in most auditoriums but I digress).

Nothing about the character's actions, design, or attire is sexual. She just happens to have large breasts. I reject the notion that any character that has a beautiful body is automatically a sexualized character. That's like saying Lux is a sexualized character despite her full body armor or that Ezreal is a sexualized character because he has bishie proportions. Sexualized characters are ones like Miss Fortune who strut around and have suggestive dialogue, or ones like Nidalee who pole dance, or the ones wearing high heels when it goes against reasonable design, or so on.


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MathMage

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
ZenCat:
I'll just leave this here.

When did "Sexy" become a bad thing? (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2426121)

Standard issues with your post:
-Claiming female skin sexualization isn't a problem if male masculinity is also exaggerated (or maybe they're both problems, or maybe female sexualization is a problem for more reasons than mere unrealism)
-Related: Claiming that because males don't object to hyper-masculinity, women aren't allowed to object to hyper-sexualization (the issue being that men aren't judged on their appearance NEARLY as much as women in society)
-Related: Claiming the masculine men are sexualized when most of them represent adolescent male power fantasies rather than anyone's sexual fantasies (Varus excepted).
-Sampling only the girls who don't have any problems with the status quo
-Conflating realism and verisimilitude (that is, claiming that MF's impossible waist is the same kind of healthy unrealism as Annie summoning Tibbers)
-Using an ellipsis to give the impression that there are just as many non-sexualized female champions as male champions (which turns out to be false)
-Claiming that it's just part of LoL's art style when LoL's splash art style has long since evolved past simple cartoonish portrayals of champions
-Confusing calls for less hyper-sexualization with complete elimination of sexiness
-Related: Claiming that it's necessary for them to be unrealistic to be legendary, and that less cartoonish body shapes would make them 'league of ordinary', when the difference between a sexualized champ and a non-sexualized champ can be as small as the difference between Classic Ashe and Freljord Ashe, between Fiora in her current pose and Fiora in a serious fencing pose, or between current MF and MF with a waist that could admit internal organs.

Quote:
SufferNot:
Again, I'm going to challenge the notion that Sona is sexualized. She doesn't do anything sexual, she doesn't say (through telepathy) anything sexual, and she doesn't dress in a sexual way. Her pose in her splash art is her standing there playing music. Her animations in the game are her floating around playing music. Her dialogue lines are all pure business. Her dress is a blue strapless gown with a treble clef on it, which is a somewhat traditional thing for female musicians to wear (generally it's either white or black because that has better synergy with the lighting present in most auditoriums but I digress).

Nothing about the character's actions, design, or attire is sexual. She just happens to have large breasts. I reject the notion that any character that has a beautiful body is automatically a sexualized character. That's like saying Lux is a sexualized character despite her full body armor or that Ezreal is a sexualized character because he has bishie proportions. Sexualized characters are ones like Miss Fortune who strut around and have suggestive dialogue, or ones like Nidalee who pole dance, or the ones wearing high heels when it goes against reasonable design, or so on.

The reason people mention Sona is because her strapless gown also appears to have given up trying to cover her boobs. And the fix that gets proposed here is not to make Sona less beautiful, just to move the fabric line up a few inches.


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Shaella

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
MathMage:
Standard issues with your post:
-Claiming female skin sexualization isn't a problem if male masculinity is also exaggerated (or maybe they're both problems, or maybe female sexualization is a problem for more reasons than mere unrealism)
-Related: Claiming that because males don't object to hyper-masculinity, women aren't allowed to object to hyper-sexualization (the issue being that men aren't judged on their appearance NEARLY as much as women in society)
-Related: Claiming the masculine men are sexualized when most of them represent adolescent male power fantasies rather than anyone's sexual fantasies (Varus excepted).
-Sampling only the girls who don't have any problems with the status quo
-Conflating realism and verisimilitude (that is, claiming that MF's impossible waist is the same kind of healthy unrealism as Annie summoning Tibbers)
-Using an ellipsis to give the impression that there are just as many non-sexualized female champions as male champions (which turns out to be false)
-Claiming that it's just part of LoL's art style when LoL's splash art style has long since evolved past simple cartoonish portrayals of champions
-Confusing calls for less hyper-sexualization with complete elimination of sexiness
-Related: Claiming that it's necessary for them to be unrealistic to be legendary, and that less cartoonish body shapes would make them 'league of ordinary', when the difference between a sexualized champ and a non-sexualized champ can be as small as the difference between Classic Ashe and Freljord Ashe, between Fiora in her current pose and Fiora in a serious fencing pose, or between current MF and MF with a waist that could admit internal organs.


The reason people mention Sona is because her strapless gown also appears to have given up trying to cover her boobs. And the fix that gets proposed here is not to make Sona less beautiful, just to move the fabric line up a few inches.

clearly you don't get it mathmage

us craazy feminazis want all semblance of female beauty erased


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Shaella

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Cryoshell17:
It seems pretty simple to me.

If it bugs you. Don't use it. I highly doubt Riot is going to change ever female champion and their skins because some people found it offensive.

>red posts in this thread talking about how future champion designs are going to change because of stuff like this


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Zerglinator

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Shaella:
>red posts in this thread talking about how future champion designs are going to change because of stuff like this

Why would anyone read Where's Waldo when you could read Where's Rikimaru?


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Zerglinator

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Cryoshell17:
It is how it is and I doubt they're going to change it.

Rioters say they intend to change it.

You doubt that they're going to change it.

Erm.


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Zerglinator

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Cryoshell17:
Link?

This thread.


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Shaella

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Zerglinator:
Why would anyone read Where's Waldo when you could read Where's Rikimaru?

Waldo is deadlier than Rikimaru


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MathMage

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Cryoshell17:
Yes but your *****ing about stuff that's happeing right now. If Riot does a better job with their female champs when it comes to the sexism in the future then fine but with what they already have what does it matter? It is how it is and I doubt they're going to change it.

What else is there to refer to but the skins that have already been released, or that are being released? How are we to influence their future design decisions without talking about their past and present decisions? You're essentially complaining that we have the audacity to give feedback.