@Riot A serious discussion about gender. Please read

First Riot Post
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Absolute 42

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Riot, listen to this person please. I'm ashamed to even try and introduce my girlfriend or other girls to League, because when I've done so in the past, the response I get is that so many female champs look like strippers/prostitutes. This makes them not even want to try it out, which is BAD for Riot as a company.

Yes it's a HUGE problem because it affects the majority of the female champs, and it would be extremely labor intensive to correct the heap of skins/splashes that need to be changed.

However, I think that Riot as a company is alienating a large part of its potential fan/playerbase with this very issue. It deserves the work, time, effort, and yes even the money that all this work implies.

I look up to Riot as a company that sets the bar higher for themselves and their players. I know the videogame industry as a whole can struggle with the oversexualization of female characters, and I want Riot to live up to their standard of going above and beyond, in this issue and others. It's not something to be brushed aside, and it can't be fixed by simply adding a more diverse female cast, because the female champs we have so far set a really bad precedent for the ways that females are treated in League.

This means changing the models/splashes we already have. That's a tall order, sure. But is it necessary for Riot to grow and for its community to grow in size and diversity? I think so.


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kritkat

Junior Member

10-07-2012

I do see your point on the fact that most of the champs being more attractive to a male character, but in riots defence its much easier to appeal to men then it is women. some women like a more rugged look (so graves, rugged garen, twisted fate, ect actually could be considered to be sexually oriented) while other like the more smooth looking guys (ezreal, jarvan, vlad) and im sure thier are type that range far, wide, and inbetween. Also the women in the game will most likly play a sexy female champion while men are a little more particular (several men refuse to play taric just because of how he looks and same with ezreal) and im sure riot doesn't want to spend time creating a champion that very few people are going to play just because of the looks. Im not saying this is at all a reason why they should or should not make these characters just giving an additional view point. another point is that males striking a sexy pose isn't the same as a female striking a pose (seriously could you image a character like garen striking a Miss Fortune pose). for Males there is a fine line between sexy and disgusting. trying to make a male champion look sexy is just as likly to turn the women off as it is to make them attracted to the skin. In the end i believe that the biggest issue is that if they make a skinn for a male champ that is appealing to the female community it has to bring in at least equal to the money it spent to pay all the people for creating the skin if doesn't then it would just be a bad investment of time and money. In the end Riot is a company that has to bring in money to stay up and going and they have to appeal to what will get that best done.


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IronStylus

Sr. Concept Artist

10-07-2012
39 of 61 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauhel View Post
No no no. You are not honestly representing my position. I have stated countless times in this thread that I love sexy champions when it's appropriate. I like how Janna is portrayed, I think it works for Ahri, Miss Fortune, and even Eve. But I wanted to compare ratios, so I had to count how many men were sexualized and how many women were.

My intent is not to have existing content changed. I just think Riot should take a more even handed approach with men and women champions. Make more sexualized me, make more women who aren't as sexualized. I don't think Riot are sexist pigs, but I think they haven't actually been paying that much attention to their record. I wanted to show them that maybe "Hey, we haven't really been that adventurous with our female archetypes" or "You know, we could use a bigger variety than your standard pretty face and hot body." That's all I want to do. I'm not trying to make them look bad, I'm trying to encourage more interesting and varied choices moving forward.
We are well aware of our record. We have content that has yet to come out which might still be more conservative, but we also have content that will push boundaries. Because of the production cycle, timing, cadence, etc, it may take time for that content to come to light. It will, though.

I'm learning things daily by the research that I'm doing into our past, present and yet-to-be-released champions. I am highly aware of the issue and I'm disseminating that information to the appropriate people.

I do very much appreciate all your points and discussions however.


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Suzuteo

Senior Member

10-07-2012

I once also made a post concerning the lack of name diversity amongst female champions. I mean seriously, virtually all of the names are made female through the addition of a vowel sound. Here is every female champion:

Ending in "-ee" sound:
Ahri
Akali
Annie
Nidalee
Poppy
Sejuani

Ending in "-ah" sound:
Anivia
Cassiopeia
Diana
Fiora
Irelia
Janna
Karma
Katarina
Leona
Sarah (Miss Fortune)
Morgana
Orianna
Shyvana
Sona
Soraka
Syndra
Tristana
Zyra

That leaves us with:
Ashe
Caitlyn
Evelynn
Kayle
LeBlanc
Lulu
Lux
Sivir
Riven
Vayne

So in addition to the artwork, models, and whatnot, maybe you should work on renaming female champions.


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lemonchief

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Iron Stylus, I can honestly say that because of this thread alone you are my favorite red. Not only do you seem to give a damn about arguments like these, but you actually make sense, too. Earlier in this thread I stated that, even though I am a feminist (holy ****storm), I still appreciate the female form--and what you said is true, it's all about the looks fitting the character. That's why I am fine with Miss Fortune being a little provocative...it suits her. But, as you have mentioned previously, it doesn't work with Sej. I was planning on buying her darkrider skin because it looked like she was actually armored, but I looked up the spotlight and found out she was just blue. Wtf?

Anyways, since you have stated you're the mouth piece for the community to the design staff, can you please tell them that at least fifty percent of the player base actually enjoys the mark that you hit with Diana? Armored and fully clothed women are completely fine in my book, but so are champions like Ahri or Miss Fortune. Also, tell whoever designed the championship Riven skin "thanks."


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Zerglinator

Senior Member

10-07-2012

So, IronStylus, can I restate something I said earlier in this thread and got buried?

I have an important legitimate question, and I don't mean to disagree with IronStylus, I just want some insight on this:

Why is Sejuani wearing very little in the frozen tundras of the Freljord unacceptable to some people, but Tryndamere forgoing a shirt in the frozen tundras of the Freljord is A-OK?


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Shaella

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Because Sejauni is waifish and Trynd is built as ****


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L2 Sentinel

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aliceandria View Post
"Feminine sexuality is such a big thing we tend to ignore. I play the game since I enjoy it not because the splash art offends me. Why does Varus get to be shirtless, but not Morgana? This seems unfair." Actual quote from my girlfriend. I personally am not commenting on this.
They can both be shirtless. I list champions as being sexualized, but I never said it's necessarily a bad thing. This thread is just a call for a more even handed approach, that's all.


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kritkat

Junior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Anyways, since you have stated you're the mouth piece for the community to the design staff, can you please tell them that at least fifty percent of the player base actually enjoys the mark that you hit with Diana? Armored and fully clothed women are completely fine in my book, but so are champions like Ahri or Miss Fortune. Also, tell whoever designed the championship Riven skin "thanks."
I actually agree with this a lot. Yes i play the mafia Miss fortune skin the most (her being my fav champ) but at the same time id have to say my all time fav skin is battleborn kayle sum time the less you show the more sexy a champion can look. There are a lot of women who find a man that is in a military uniform to be sexy while others fine a guy with no shirt and jeans sexy. so thye can actually create a champion that is sexy with out being half naked.


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Useless Kung Fu

Senior Member

10-07-2012

This is so overblown with a demand for political correctness that it's ridiculous.

I dislike that IronStylus is legitimizing this brand of exaggerated sensationalism by spurring it onward. There's plenty of guys with rippling muscles, broad chests and shoulders, or guys that have no shirts on and nobody's complaining. If Urgot had been a fat hideous monstrosity with a slightly modified chest, a female voice actor and a bra on, would it suddenly be more "okay" because Riot put out a fat ugly -female- monstrosity?

The game is more male-dominated because videogames are more male-dominated. The level of sexiness visible on LoL is incredibly low and very tame compared to almost everywhere else you look - not just in videogames, but in pop culture. You take away some of the sexiness and you'll only be biting the ankles of your own target audience; males AND females. What's being suggested here - to remove elements of sexuality, specifically from females - isn't just in opposition to gamers' wants, but to society's ideals.

When we head into a fantasy setting, we want big buff athletic heroic masculine dudes with their chests out and their biceps unreasonably thick. Male gamers don't get uppity about it either.

In the same breath, we - yes, females too - want fit, attractive females in the same vein. The only dissenting parties are those entrenched in sensationalist feminism and their problem isn't with LoL or Riot's concept artists. Their problem is with society.