@Riot A serious discussion about gender. Please read

First Riot Post
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MathMage

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunxlinger View Post
I haven't seen a lot of fencing and Fiora splash DOES give you the idea that she is a fencer. If you dont see that you need help.
"I have no idea what fencing looks like, so because I think Fiora looks like she's fencing, therefore she is!"

What the **** is this line of reasoning.


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L2 Sentinel

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomajRT View Post
I agree with Gragas being a very off-the-wall example (but hey, different strokes for different folks). The thing is, Ryze is an even better counterpoint than Pentakill Olaf purely due to the impracticality of his garments (or lack thereof). My issue is that you take generalization to the extreme, and speak for your entire demographic when it's unjust to do so.



/shrug Gragas is attractive to some people. And while "beauty" is differing for different people, you have to understand that not everyone finds people like Varus attractive. I've known people to say that even he would have a "body builder" body type, purely because he's not thin as a rail. Also, I would point out fitness models are larger than your average male runway model, and generally have overall more musculature, whereas a normal male model you'd typically see is usually thinner, generally a slighter build than your average joe on the street. Male models actually have to adhere to the same prescripts that female models do - tall, and skinny.



I would argue that old Soraka doesn't care. I'd probably also say that Battle Bunny Riven with Giant Sword to Stab People With doesn't really care if people sexualize her. If all you look at is their pose and body type, you're analyzing the art completely wrong. Did you take time to look at their facial expressions, too? The weapons they are wielding, and how they are wielding them? "Presenting oneself" as a sexual conquest is actually pretty hard to do when they've got a huge ass weapon in your face. I would agree that Fiora and Sona manage to do so, however (Sona with her smirk - though this could be a Mona Lisa effect, Fiora with her pose, and generally hiding her weapon). I just think you could take the time to look at the WHOLE package and not just one or two things that suit your argument - hence I bring up the other Riven and Vayne skins earlier. Looking at JUST one skin from either champion is not looking at the WHOLE CHAMPION.
Fitness models are kind of their own thing. They are marketed at people of their own *** as a "this could be if you buy my product" type of thing. Female fitness models usually have ripped abs and are more muscular than what most guys would usually go for. They would not be cast as the lead in a romantic comedy for example, because people don't view them that way. The standard I would use for male beauty are the type of models you would see on billboards for Calvin Klein or Abercrombie & Fitch. Those guys are marketed with *** appeal in mind. Fitness models are not.

Soraka suffers from the brokeback trope that women in comics and games often do. Battle Bunny Riven would not wear a fetish outfit to battle if she wasn't interested in that kind of attention. Also she is posing to show off her ass. It's blatantly sexual. The weapons they are wielding could just as easily be props in their Top Model photo shoot.

Male runway models can be skinny or muscular, but they never get anywhere near the proportions of Tryndamere or PK Olaf. Fitness models might, but fitness models are selling workout machines. When they use the really bulky fitness models, the target demographic is most likely bodybuilders.


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OneSadCookie

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Member

10-07-2012

For me, this is still a matter of money and mouth and feet. IronStylus needs to put his money where his mouth is, and Morello needs to keep his foot out of his mouth...

I understand that these things take time, and certainly the most recent female skins (championship riven, victorious janna, classic syndra, justicar syndra, arcade sona, classic diana, dark valkyrie diana, mythic cassiopeia) are less offensive than many of the older ones, there are still 3 with unnecessary skin (classic syndra, dark valkyrie diana, arcade sona) and most of them have excessively large breasts.

The bottom line is, you can't convince us it doesn't matter, 'cos it does, and you can't convince us you've changed, when you haven't (yet). Still, I don't mind hearing further assurances that change is in the offing, as each such assurance makes it harder to back down


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orc72

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTaur View Post
Maokai is identified as "he", not "it". So he's male, even with the lack of *****. His facial features are roughly male-looking. If Riot wanted a truly sexless tree, they could've done that, but they didn't. He identifies as male.

Cass could totally still seduce like that. That was my whole point. If they meant to portray a curse that rendered her hideous and disqualified from seduction, then they didn't go far enough making her snake-like. They went with a boring old sexy snake lady instead of having fun with the whole "monster" thing.

Zyra... "oh, they're just ripping stuff off, and you're supposed to *** up that sort of thing. Nothing to see here, that's just the way it is". Says who? Why shouldn't they try something more original? They could've tried a lot of different things with the whole possession thing, but they went with the sexiest, most obvious, and most boring approach.
'he' is gender neutral in some situations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/He#Gender_neutral They use it for Fiddle Sticks and Blitzcrank as well. You can't sit here and argue that with a lack of genetalia a robot or scarecrow is a male (well atleast fiddles does have a stick..)
What exactly is male looking about maokais face? The spikes jutting out of the bark? The jackolantern style grin? That lack of a nose? Maybe its non exsistant ears that tick you off that he has a mascaline face? Im really curious here cause I always thought he looked more femine to be honest. I mean his lips glow with that green moss, and the bark resembles a long fancy hair doo like something a women from the 80s would wear. I am pretty sure riot nailed the sexless tree with maokai, since nothing on his model suggest he is male or female. I mean the only human thing about him is his eyes, and those are pink ,which is a color more often related to females then males.
also, lack of genitalia pretty much makes you genderless, if you dont believe me take some science classes.

And I am pretty sure cassie could not seduce like that. Everyone knows she is noxian now not human. And contrary to what you may say, im pretty sure any sane male would freak out if a snake lady came and tried to put the moves on you. Besides if you want a female thats a monster you could play Anivia. If you want to defend your argument of over sexualized champions you should argue about Cassies lore of using implied *** to gain information.

They didnt try anything more original when they ripped off 300 with pantheon. They didn't try anything more original when they ripped off Strider Hiryu with talon. They didn't try anything more original when they ripped off the Grim Reaper with karthus. They didn't try anything more original when they ripped off Dionysus with Gragas. They didn't try anything more original when they ripped off the TMNT with Jax. Face it, the characters in this game are 90% parodys of other characters. All because one of those characters happens to be a scantly clad seductress instead of a macho man, doesn't mean you should freak out and be offended by it.


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Karolina

Senior Member

10-07-2012

This whole thread looks so silly with the automatic censoring of the word "sechs".


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L2 Sentinel

Senior Member

10-07-2012

If Blitzcrank is gender neutral, then so is Orianna.


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Gunxlinger

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Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMage View Post
Fiora's pose is far LESS capable of actual fighting than sport fencing poses. That's a terrible excuse.


I don't know if you're being sarcastic here, but MF isn't exactly an example of serious champion splash art, and Lee Sin's splashes are actually posed quite well from a martial arts perspective (especially the authentic Muay Thai move on that Lee Sin skin).
O really. Then why do I get the same pose over and over again when I google image search fencing?


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GaafGrohiik

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauhel View Post
Fitness models are kind of their own thing. They are marketed at people of their own *** as a "this could be if you buy my product" type of thing. Female fitness models usually have ripped abs and are more muscular than what most guys would usually go for. They would not be cast as the lead in a romantic comedy for example, because people don't view them that way. The standard I would use for male beauty are the type of models you would see on billboards for Calvin Klein or Abercrombie & Fitch. Those guys are marketed with *** appeal in mind. Fitness models are not.

Soraka suffers from the brokeback trope that women in comics and games often do. Battle Bunny Riven would not wear a fetish outfit to battle if she wasn't interested in that kind of attention. Also she is posing to show off her ass. It's blatantly sexual. The weapons they are wielding could just as easily be props in their Top Model photo shoot.

Male runway models can be skinny or muscular, but they never get anywhere near the proportions of Tryndamere or PK Olaf. Fitness models might, but fitness models are selling workout machines. When they use the really bulky fitness models, the target demographic is most likely bodybuilders.
Soraka is a goat. Your argument is invalid.

Battle Bunny Riven was a fan service. The masses wanted it, they got it. Your argument is invalid.

Ezreal fits the description of a skinny male runway model. Your argument is invalid.


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L2 Sentinel

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunxlinger View Post
O really. Then why do I get the same pose over and over again when I google image search fencing?
We must not be using the same google.


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third3gree

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
I know of plenty of girls that do play, and they choose a gender neutral summoner name because of the grief they receive for making their gender known.
What, like everyone else does?