Tiamat SERIOUSLY Broken

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BorisTheGreat

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Junior Member

10-06-2012

GP with PD, IE, 4 Tiamats
Really good build, I promise


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FloconDeMiel

Senior Member

10-06-2012

what are you waiting for ? build some tiamat on every ad carry omg


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Helter Kremlin

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Tiamat got you down in an up-close fight?
Don't fret! Use range!
Dial 1-800-anymother****ingchampionwithrange now!
Don't be a loser! Be an abuser!
lol in all seriousness though.
If Tiamat Fiora, or any up-close champ, is giving you the business, get someone who can fight her from a distance, like Lux or who ever has the most range on your team.


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67chrome

Senior Member

10-07-2012

I don't really see tiamat as all that strong, though it helps Fiora wave clear like a baws (which is something she's terrible at). Of course, most of the time I play her I play Dominion, were fighting more than 3 champions at once is pretty uncommon, and the dueling power of things like Youmuu's, Executioner's, Maw of Malmortis, and Wit's End are all-around better buys. And were Fiora feels generally more viable, unless the enemy runs full cheesecake mode and picks nothing but broken champions.

Her ultimate is fairly easy to get off when your competent at playing her though (and use smart cast), so it's not like she'll get CCed and instantly die every time a team-fight is about to happen, especially if she runes with Cleanse. Tiamat Fiora just seems like the cheese offered by AP Yi and Tryndamere in general though, at a certain point you realize how to deal with it and it becomes much harder to fall to.

It would be amazing if Riot made a zombie-minion survival map though, and stacking Tiamats is hard to resist if you get her in Proving Grounds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastBaron88 View Post
So everyone is pretty much in accordance that Tiamat in its current form really isn't used (or able to be used) for anything other than abusing game mechanics and trolling?
It's more in the same class as Ionic Spark, were it's incredibly niche. Unlike Spark, Tiamat has 2 major problems though: Health regeneration per 5 and Mana regeneration per 5. Even minimal amounts of either will generally cause a wide range of champions to avoid an item like the plague, Deathfire Grasp was hardly picked up on a range of APs when it offered Mana regeneration per 5. If both those stats were removed, it would see a huge surge in popularity. As-is, most Auto-Attack reliant champions tend to want as little waisted stats as possible on what they purchase, especially ADCs, as everything they get multiplies off everything else they get.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nishaven90 View Post
Buy a single cloth armour and the ultimate will deal 0 damage because Fiora with 4 Tiamats and a Bloodthirster has no armour penetration.
This is wrong on so many levels....
Armor works on reducing damage by a fraction. 100 causes you to take 1/2 damage. 200 causes you to take 1/3 damage. 300 causes you to take 1/4 damage. If you see the pattern you'll realize there is no point were you can reduce damage to 0. This isn't Starcraft were armor works on addition and subtraction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Nova View Post
Tiamats don't stack as far as I know, and the reason most Fiora players will get a Tiamat is so her ultimate splashes. She probably got multiple Tiamats because each one has +55 AD and has a decent HP/MP regen rate, so she stacked them together to get more utility than anything else, but not to abuse some broken splash stacking affect.
The splash damage isn't a unique bonus. It stacks with multiple Tiamats, so you can deal up to 300% splash damage if you get 6. Here's the LoL Wiki article on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pethrax View Post
Basic attacks splash for 50%, ranged splash for 35%. Radius of splash: 185.
185 is the splash Diameter with Tiamat, the radius is 92.5 (at least occording to LoL Wiki, however accurate that is).

From all the times I've used it I'd say the 92.5 radius feels more accurate, it's not the most reliable splash damage out there.


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TheLastBaron88

Senior Member

10-08-2012

@67Chrome, excellent post, though I would like to reiterate the fact that I do not feel Tiamat to be overpowered per se, I just feel the splash stacking to more damage than your initial attack is dealing is kinda stupid. In all honesty, I feel it is woefully inadequate as an item, particularly since the splash is so small (melee range is 125, so the splash radius is even smaller than that! Should be something like 250). I feel it needs an overall buff in splash range, maybe even damage, but that the splash effect should NOT stack. On a similar note, what would you actually use Ionic Spark for? Thought that was nearly as worthless.


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chzyken

Member

10-08-2012

You shouldn't comment on the balance of an item based on the results of one game.

If you see a fiora getting tiamats, then its pretty obvious your team should not be standing on top of each other in the middle of her ulti, as the tiamats effective range is very small. Or perhaps she should be the first person your initiator dives. A multi tiamat build is relatively easy to counter.

A niche use I could imagine occuring would be oriana's ulti or Diana's suck in paired with Tiamat on Gangplank or Miss fortunes Q or Fioras Ulti. But play like that does not work in high levels of play.

I see Tiamat as a troll, niche item.


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Tropots82

Member

10-08-2012

Countering Tiamat stacking is like countering blitzcrank
YOu dont need to counter pick a blitzcrank is champion selection just move away from his rocket grab and bam you win
same with tiamats just dont stand near one another this isnt a hard concept to understad adc and apc should be as far away as possible anyway you dont even have to counter build just think and you can make stacking tiamats a waste of gold


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Moby the White

Senior Member

10-08-2012

So I agree with certain points made and disagree with others here and will continue to explain my point intelligently without bashing the creator of the original post.

Essentially stacking tiamats represents a primary problem for the opponent when it comes to farming. WHEN you are able to finish tiamat and farm up on minion waves getting every last hit, it thus becomes a major game changer. In team fights any player whose CS becomes so overwhelmingly high it becomes even more so difficult to fight them. So farming up with tiamat in order to build more powerful items could essentially be viotale to the enemy team. Now exploiting this in teamfights is quite similar to exploiting the old cleanse teleport trick. It is just how the mechanics work. Is it fair that 200% of 200 ad splashes onto you and this enemy champ is able to 4 hit kill your entire team? probably not fair. But the game isn't really fair tbh.

Now I don't agree that it is oppa because in order to achieve this you need to stack at least 2 and use melee attacks. With kayle it kind of works because technically she is using melee attacks at a larger range so its still melee. Ive never tried it on fiora so i can't say if its op on her. Truthfully i think Fiora is just a master yi in female form. If you focus her and don't feed her she becomes easy to kill. Plus silences are always helpful.

Never could a tryndamere use this it doesn't have enough sustain, but gangplank makes this insanely hilarious. I got my first quadra kill with a tiamat gangplank by ulting their team and firing three parleys with 230+ AD was pretty awesome.

The other person I like to do this with is J4 and this is because the mana regen on tiamat is so helpful. I always manage to find myself oom with J4 maybe because i harass too much idk. I think on J4 if you have tanky runes and masteries tiamat stacking can be deadly because he has a lot of escape mechanics and is able to chase with them as well.

Overall on some champs it becomes broken but on others the item set just doesnt work.
so yes it can be broken but only in certain circumstances. like J4 for instance where the champion can sustain and manage to get fed off of it. Fiora in this instance was able to be shut down due to stuns, but a tanky ad brawler type could seriously open up a team fight and create a situation where his team has the favor.
I think its a fun mechanic, and if it were to be nerfed they would need to up the splash % in order to compromise i feel just to give the edge that it lost.


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TheLastBaron88

Senior Member

10-08-2012

^ Excellent post, Moby. Exactly what I am looking to see in this thread. Never heard of any cleanse/teleport trick, curious how that worked and what it would even do. I believe I agree with everything you just said.


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Moby the White

Senior Member

10-08-2012

Player would cast teleport and then immediately cast cleanse. Cleanse tooltip stated and did remove ANY DEBUFF from said player. So players could instantly teleport anywhere on the map. Thank you sir for the excellant compliment ingame name is the same so add me if you want lol

Like i said i agree it gets broken situationally just needs tweaked. Maybe riot could introduce diminishing returns on stuff like that? CC could use diminishing returns as well... your thoughts?