Jungle is almost as bad as support now...

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Miirik

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Senior Member

10-15-2012

Here is some of the underlying problems

1) People want to enforce the 0CS support meta they created, and most of the time they would prefer healer supports rather than tanky support, and when they do go with a tanky support, they end up with little more than a CC bot that can't initiate. Leona was played as a ward *****, she ended up in a situation as little more than a secondary CC machine that would go in after malphite, because she was too weak to be an initiator, with extra health coming from basically only aegis. She was played (in my mind) the wrong way and it makes me sad how they treated her.

2) jungling has become a chore and a lot of fault is put onto you, you are expected to be everywhere at all times, I admit even I get mad if I'm constantly held at my tower without any pressure or ganks from my jungler (though it's justifiable anger I suppose). Therefore I, along with quite a few others, don't even want to jungle anymore

3) Again, since everyone wants those 0cs supports, you usually end up with no tanky initiator, which can be crucial. So from here we see the rise of gp10 junglers who get their gp10 just to keep up. Nobody whom jungles with skarner regularly anymore builds wriggles, now it's philo stone, etc. They tank up and gp10 up to be the team initiator. Poor Leona can't jungle (thus why we keep calling for her passive to proc on minions by herself).

I absolutely hate this meta. Currently there are 2 enjoyable lanes, being mid lane and top lane cause they have the least amount of responsibility.

mid lane: farm and gank either side lane occassionally
top lane: farm and maybe gank mid lane


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2toot

Junior Member

10-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki421 View Post
I've recently (i'm talking just a handful of games) just started stealing lane CS anytime I come to a lane, get a kill or not. Zone out the enemy, while taking cs. Force to tower. Team hates me, don't care, get fed. Carry hard.
haha i do that all the time and get raged at but it really does help a ton.
I find top and mid to be the most boring lanes since they seem to be the most passive/ need jungle assistance lanes to get a kill. no fun.


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AgonisT

Senior Member

10-15-2012

I feel all they need to do is increase the gold and exp gained in the jungle camps. The worth of these camps varies so much more than the worth of creep waves in lanes. Even shortening the respawn timers on the camps would help massively. Another idea would be to have the red and blue camps instantly respawn when the buff expires, as this would allow junglers to not only time their routes better, but allow them to have more presence and re-open the door for many of the assassin-type junglers that are now considered obselete with the current meta.


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Xyltin

Senior Member

10-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by iainB85 View Post
Looking at your match history: http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/22803061#history

Not counting Co-Op games... it looks like you did fairly well your last three games, but lost two of them.

Think back to those games... if you had been tanky support who fed lanes kills, bought oracles, and warded the map do you think they outcome would've been different? Even having 14 kills one of your losses, late game didn't you feel like "Man if I was Mumu I could carry my team to victory so easily right now".

Not trying to call you out, but I played Kha'Xiz quite a bit on release and often got 5-10 kills during laning phase, but when late game team fights rolled around it seemed painfully obvious to me that if I went CC bot jungle we'd be having such an easier time. Do you have the same experience?
I stopped playing Kz in the jungle.
Assassins are currently not meant to be in the jungle cause of 2 reasons:
1. they have a weak start and get counter jungled easily in that time
2. you need to snowball. But a snowballed jungler has normally still only as much gold as a farmed lane champ

Junglers that can build easy G/10 items and are good from early to late game are the ones a team needs.


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NA1

Senior Member

10-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by UlquiorraKuchiki View Post
I feel all they need to do is increase the gold and exp gained in the jungle camps. The worth of these camps varies so much more than the worth of creep waves in lanes. Even shortening the respawn timers on the camps would help massively. Another idea would be to have the red and blue camps instantly respawn when the buff expires, as this would allow junglers to not only time their routes better, but allow them to have more presence and re-open the door for many of the assassin-type junglers that are now considered obselete with the current meta.

The problem with shortening the timers is that the laners will just take the jungle farm more often.

In order for the jungle to work, Riot needs to create a way for laners to leave the jungle the hell alone, instead of constantly taking their own jungler's farm. THEN they can buff the jungle so it gives a bit more gold and XP.

It used to be like that, but the longer timers and higher Gold/XP reward on the original jungle meant junglers had too much roaming power. Riot needs to find the proper balance, cause as is, they've failed.


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FizzleStix

Senior Member

10-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by iainB85 View Post
Regnar -- Banned 90% of the time, just an OP champ atm.
.
If he's sooooo OP like you say, why was he used a total of ZERO times in the World Championships? Is it maybe because he's not OP? I'm not even sure he was ever banned either....maybe once?

If he was so OP then obviously if you were playing for a $1 million you would use him at every chance.


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Steelflame

Senior Member

10-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FizzleStix View Post
If he's sooooo OP like you say, why was he used a total of ZERO times in the World Championships? Is it maybe because he's not OP? I'm not even sure he was ever banned either....maybe once?

If he was so OP then obviously if you were playing for a $1 million you would use him at every chance.

Perhaps realize he wasn't even in on the patch the finals used......

And that he was UP as hell on release due to a clunky kit. Even if they used his first patch, he would have been a very bad pick. He only became powerful after they fixed his animations.... which pushed him pretty much over the edge.


On another note, I still love the jungle. I tend to jungle in my premades, although it is what I main in solo queue as well. I tell my team get over it if you don't get your gank right this second, while I am busy ganking mid, securing the enemy jungle buffs, and holding top lane's hand so that they can stop fearing the *Insert tanky dps champ here that tends to go top* because they picked a weak champ for top-lane.


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TehPumpkin

Senior Member

10-15-2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clNNhy3UM0I

Morello mentions jungle changes are coming. *crosses fingers* Please for the love of god let carry junglers get their farm again.


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A Prop Phone

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Senior Member

10-15-2012

You are basically correct. For practical purposes i only jungle shyvana. She is the only jungler that is fast enough to clear your own jungle and some of the enemies which makes up for the serious lack of gold on your half. Even so you can't build damage, only gp5 and tank items. To confirm what you are saying just look at all the junglers building Aegis as their first big item.


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Kristhull

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Junior Member

10-15-2012

Lets see a Red opinion here!