Infinity Edge, Rabadon's Deathcap, and Hybrid Builds

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LeetMasterAce

Member

10-06-2012

I've noticed a pretty serious issue with IE and RDcap whenever I mess around with alternate champion builds. They completely discourage hybrid builds.

Hybrid champs have no items that ENCOURAGE the hybrid build style, with the exception of Jax (but let's be real, there is no item in the game right now that Jax can't make theoretical good use of). However, if you're planning on building IE, there is no reason for you to build anything but damage since IE makes your damage scale through the roof. The same holds true for Rabadon's Deathcap and AP.

That being said, the most poignant hybrid item in the game (out of the two that exist) is Hextech Gunblade, and it isn't even really that good for its exorbitant price (3750gp or so) which is more expensive than Rabadon's and only slightly less expensive than IE. Only two champs should ever build this item (Katarina and Jax) and only one really benefits from it fully (Jax). The other hybrid item, Guinsoo's, is only ever built by Jax.

Meanwhile, every single AD Carry and AP Carry has, more or less, the same exact build (with some building a Tri Force somewhere in there before the other standard items), each which includes an Infinity Edge and Rabadon's Deathcap, respectively.

Basically, the only champion who benefits from building hybrid is Jax, which is unfortunate considering that hybrid champs like Akali, Katarina, Mordekaiser, Evelynn etc. all exist but benefit most from focusing on only one stat (mostly straight AP).

I think it's fine time Riot released a new hybrid item, one that capitlizes on and benefits hybrid builds much like IE and RD reward pure AD or AP builds.

Just off the top of my head:

Serrated Bladestaff
+50 AD, +60 AP
Unique (Passive):
+1 AD for every 15 AP your champ possesses.
+1 AP for every 5 Bonus AD your champ possesses.
The above bonuses do not stack with themselves.

Build Recipe: 550gp + Blasting Wand + Amplifying Tome + B.F. Sword

I made the AP per AD bonus more agreeable because most hybrids build pure AP anyway, so the less advantageous AD for AP tradeoff wouldn't tempt them to throw this into a pure AP build just for some bonus AD.


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LiptonSwagger

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeetMasterAce View Post
That being said, the most poignant hybrid item in the game (out of the two that exist) is Hextech Gunblade, and it isn't even really that good for its exorbitant price (3750gp or so) which is more expensive than Rabadon's and only slightly less expensive than IE. Only two champs should ever build this item (Katarina and Jax)
It's a great situational item on a number of aps that also auto attack, like fizz, swain, and kassadin. The thing is, it's not designed to be a core item on anyone but maybe akali, it's a situational damage addition for when you want a bit more sustain and when you're facing some magic resistance. I see it as kinda parallel to trinity instead of lich bane (both of which could also be considered hybrid) on these aps: extremely powerful and with lots of potential, but never a first item, and you only wanna get it when you're ahead because it's expensive. And some games, you DON'T want to get it, and that's ok.

Building hybrid is more about picking up an ad item or two, an ap item or two, and one MAYBE two items that add to both than trying to fill your inventory with hybrid items, just because of the way the game works. And honestly, I'm ok with that.

And search around: there are many more potentially hybrid items than you think.
Nashor's tooth, Malady, Madred's blood (scales to mage pen), wit's end (does the same), etc. No, they're not all good on every champion. Same goes for ad and ap items.


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BlazingSalvo

Senior Member

10-06-2012

On hit items are not hybrid items. All on hit items give very few stats and only wit's end is cost efficient.

Gunblade is not good on Fizz since he has almost no use for the spell vamp *and* the lifesteal will be unnoticeable as well. Swain autoattacks?

Gunblade and other items are no longer good on champions like Evelynn or Katarina because their AP ratios are strong enough that building Haunting Guide / Deathcap / DFG, etc. will give you the highest damage without wasting time on AD/Lifesteal/etc.

The only champions that should buy a hybrid item like Rageblade or Gunblade are ones that truly rely on autoattacks for damage (Jax, in some cases AD Nidalee with Rageblade when she's ahead) or champions that benefit from every single stat immensely like Akali, who gets spell vamp from the AD due to her passive, and perhaps Kayle who has a strong 1.0 ratio and .4 on hit.

Any champion with 3-4 AP ratios should build straight AP due to the efficiency of deathcap (and for sustain on katarina, WOTA is stronger than Gunblade due to her lack of AD ratio on Q and E and the way the 80 AP compounds with Deathcap and Archmage).
Any champion who would build trinity force or infinity edge should build AD due to the efficiency of critical strike. Miss Fortune, Ezreal, Varus, Ezreal, champions whose ratios are so low, a typically AD build is more efficient than a single AP item), (and in the case of ezreal and miss fortune at one point, could actually have full AP builds which work from time to time, but there is no attack damage in those builds).

A few more reasons hybrid builds don't work, even on champions with hybrid ratios - lifesteal and spell vamp are mutually exclusive and you have to pay for each stat. Spell penetration and armor penetration are also costly (building void staff on an AP ezreal does not increase the damage from lich bane or your Q, building gunblade on katarina does not help your autoattacks as much as if she had armor pen, the ad is pretty much solely for her W and R ratios, building an "on hit" build, or a hybrid dps pretty much requires going all in on magic damage from the on hit proc, and magic pen or Malady shred, and so a lot of the attack damage from items like bloodrazor is wasted due to the lack of critical strike, armor pen, and lifesteal.

/wall of text


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LeetMasterAce

Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Building hybrid is more about picking up an ad item or two, an ap item or two, and one MAYBE two items that add to both than trying to fill your inventory with hybrid items, just because of the way the game works. And honestly, I'm ok with that.
This is the sort of incorrect strategic thought process my post addresses. By building a couple AD items and a couple AP items, a champion is splitting the utility of both stats, which imo SHOULD be viable and strong as an alternative but is not due to the existence of Infinity Edge (and critical damage in general) and Rabadon's Deathcap. If you only build a few AD or AP items, these two do not provide as much of an explosive return as they otherwise do if you build purely one way or another. And no champion (again, except Jax) really takes advantage of not going all in one way or the other.


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Maulkrieg

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Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeetMasterAce View Post
This is the sort of incorrect strategic thought process my post addresses. By building a couple AD items and a couple AP items, a champion is splitting the utility of both stats, which imo SHOULD be viable and strong as an alternative but is not due to the existence of Infinity Edge (and critical damage in general) and Rabadon's Deathcap. If you only build a few AD or AP items, these two do not provide as much of an explosive return as they otherwise do if you build purely one way or another. And no champion (again, except Jax) really takes advantage of not going all in one way or the other.
The reason they won't make hybrid a more tantalizing way to build is due to how difficult it is to counter. You're telling me that I should worry more if Jax, Nid, Kat, or any other champ that builds even slightly hybrid gets fed so that I have to buy both a chain vest AND negatron early just so I can help my teammates survive against the terror they created?

How about focusing on the fact that most of these champs are melee, have one skill or another that makes them hybrid, and already have extremely good mobility in most cases? If you try to make true use out of the fact that these champions have decent AD and AP scaling, it'll never get passed, as you'd have to do too much just to counter a single champ. Jax already requires a whole team's effort to work around if he even so much as gets a kill in his lane while maintaining farm.


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Estred Shantile

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Jax is almost unfair and questionably "OP" which is a term I hate using. It does take nearly a whole team to counter him if he is barely fed not even Irelia does that till late game but Jax can do it mid game. A hybrid focused item set would require a full Jax remake again.


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lSlayAllDay

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Junior Member

10-06-2012

the dc, best item in the game/ nuff said