AD Caster

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Wrathofrecca

Senior Member

10-01-2012

Hard to argue that tanky dps are ruining maps.

Murder bridge relies 1 tank and 4 hypercarry/poke comps which is a 4:1 or 3:2 ratio.

TTL is dominated by tanky derp and usually 1 carry which is a 2:1 ratio..

Summoner's Rift is dominated by 1-3 tanks(one of whom is sometimes the support so they're squishy most of the game), and 2-3 carries and a sometimes non-tanky support. This yields a ratio of 3:2.

Dominion is best run with 2-3 derp tanks, support built derp tank, and an ad carry. The problem is anything is that many derp tanks still build glass cannon. So the ratio here is 4:1 to be fair or 3:2 to be realistic.

So, if the entire game isn't dominated by derp tanks, what's the problem? Side note, Summoners rift is won by the AD carry getting super farmed or the AP carry getting super farmed. How can you say the game is ruined when what we see is contradicted?


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Panwar

Senior Member

10-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempestphile View Post
I usually ban Jayce Rengar

Do they count?
Jayce is arguably an AD caster. But the most effective build for him so far is actually AD carry.

While Rengar has a couple of AD spells. His Q is an on-next-hit, and he has an atkspd buff. Generally AD casters don't have a lot of incentive to AA. They build AD so in the beginning their AA's are effective, but as the game goes on without crit or Atkspd they lose punch.


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Phourc

Senior Member

10-02-2012

I would say anyone with an autoattack refresher isn't technially an AD caster, as that's more bruiser territory.

Jax, Wukong, Rengar, etc spring to mind - their AD skills are more for sweet, sweet autoattack spamming.

Not to say AD casters aren't strong, they're strongest midgame and that's technically most of a Dominion game (as starting at level 3 we blow through early game xP) - plus an early(ish) last whisper helps them not suck horrifically endgame.


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Cauldrath

Senior Member

10-02-2012

Autoattack resets are more valuable to AD casters than any other class, because they have high AD and low AS in general. An ability with an autoattack reset effectively adds 1.0 to the AD ratio on it.

The problem with making a hard line is that it is more of a spectrum from AD carry to AD caster, which pretty much is just how valuable non-kit attack speed (and, to a lesser extent, crit) bonuses/penalties are to that champ/build. Tanky DPS is a completely different spectrum, describing what allows the champion to deal its damage, and is differentiated from assassins (who rely on timing) and ranged dps (who rely on positioning).

You can have AD carry tanky dps (Trynd), AD caster tanky dps (Riven/Panth), AD carry assassins (Twitch), AD caster assassins (Talon/Rengar), AD carry ranged dps (Vayne, Miss Fortune), and AD caster ranged dps (Jayce). There are some combinations that generally don't work as well, though, such as AD carry tanky dps (needs incredibly strong tanking abilities and/or huge steroids just to function at all because of all the stats needed), AD carry assassins (because AS builds always have good sustained damage, so their burst has to be weaker to compensate), and AD caster ranged dps (because crit+AS scales so well that your abilities have to be crazy OP to make you not want to build that combination).


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IamBonez

Member

10-02-2012

Mantheon is my favorite AD caster.


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Panwar

Senior Member

10-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cauldrath View Post
You can have AD carry tanky dps (Trynd), AD caster tanky dps (Riven/Panth), AD carry assassins (Twitch), AD caster assassins (Talon/Rengar), AD carry ranged dps (Vayne, Miss Fortune), and AD caster ranged dps (Jayce). There are some combinations that generally don't work as well, though, such as AD carry tanky dps (needs incredibly strong tanking abilities and/or huge steroids just to function at all because of all the stats needed), AD carry assassins (because AS builds always have good sustained damage, so their burst has to be weaker to compensate), and AD caster ranged dps (because crit+AS scales so well that your abilities have to be crazy OP to make you not want to build that combination).
Pretty good explanation. It's something I see confused a lot. The difference between type of champion and role of champion. Like rumble is an AP caster, but as far as role goes, he can vary between AP bruiser to AP carry depending on the ratios of damage to survivability you build.

And you are right about it being a continuum. Urgot is a good example. Obviously he makes heavy use of his AD spells, but just the same most Dominion builds make him use AA's pretty extensively, as well as building crit.


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Necroing

Senior Member

04-12-2013

AD Casters: Caitlyn, Corki, Ezreal, Gangplank, Kha'Zix, Master Yi, Pantheon, Sivir (against ap bursters like Leblanc, Morgana, Veigar unviable against others.), TALON , Tristana, Zed. Those are the only acceptable AD mids you could pretty much just like the other carries however they lack the range and CC for mid and are very easy to gank. As a jungler if I saw for instance Draven mid I'd camp him cause of his bad escapes or Vayne because of her terrible early game. Anyways the point I'm trying to make is you shouldn't ever consider AD mids to be OP? Why cause AP tanks will always beat them or if you're an ap with great range you can still lane against them. AP tanks completely destroy AD casters and if not worse case it becomes a farm lane.
List of AP tanks and high range AP's that can lane against AD casters: Akali, Brand, Cassiopeia, CHO'GATH (you won't beat him), Diana, MUNDO (he goes where he pleases and so much sustain), Elise, Fiddlesticks (AD caster no CC weak counter), Fizz, Galio, Gragas, Heimerdinger, Kayle, Leblanc (AD caster no CC weak counter), Lux( AD caster no gap closer weak counter), Malzahar (provided they don't get QSS weak counter), MORDEKAISER (good luck beating him no ganks he'll make you cry mid lane), Morgana (can't dodge snares or no gap closer weak counter), NIDALEE (once you get level 3 spears and are hitting them they'll cry), NUNU (snowball you everytime and has godly sustain), Ryze ( can be beat if you have more range weak counter), SION (seriously take another lane his stun range and that godly sustain), Swain (bird and once he gets ult you'll lose trades), Twisted Fate( decent player will always keep you away never goes oom with his blue card), Veigar( if they have no gap closer weak counter), Viktor (very underplayed but he's such a good harasser and his W makes you scared), Xerath ( so much range and CC switch lanes), Ziggs( harasses well and uses bomb to get away). The point I'm trying to make with my long post is that AD casters are great in their state and they can be beat. I'd rather face them mid than have Amumu,Blitzcrank, Malphite,Shen, Akali who greatly change outcomes of teamfights.


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konfetarius

Senior Member

04-12-2013

Necromancer: SrgtAsh


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A Slime Appears

Senior Member

04-12-2013

I'd like to answer this but I'm not sure how I felt about AD casters in 2012.


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