Level Points & Money Before Minions Spawn

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Karnage

Senior Member

10-02-2012

Just make it so you can sell an item bought back for full price within 30 seconds... done deal.


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Kari Arisu

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Senior Member

10-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageoffire View Post
Any sort of abuse can be easily stoped

you buy an item, you can return that item until:
1) you use an ability
2) you take or receive damage
3) you leave the fountain.

as far as skill points go, i dont think you should be able to undo them.
I think this is the best remedy to abuse.
I'd really like to see this feature, but I'm very afraid to see open holes for abuse.
The last thing we need is a new meta based around canceling purchases.


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bubs

Senior Member

10-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterTitanic View Post
make it so that you can't use spells and abilities in the fountain. and you're locked out from selling stuff after leaving the fountain.

abuse case solved.
please no


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Abandon Mae

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Senior Member

10-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by boourns View Post
I dunno about skill points, it seems too special case to only do it for the first part of the game and we wouldn't want to do it for the whole game.

For items though, I am in favor of allowing players to undo purchases/sales/combines that they make by mistake throughout the game if we can cover off the abuse cases.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boourns View Post
I think it's useful enough to undo a mistake in the shop throughout the game. I would not confine it to the start of the game.
how about if you buy the wrong item you have 5 seconds to reverse the purchase.


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ncrwhale

Senior Member

10-02-2012

There are good arguments on both sides; I'll just throw out that when I was newer I would sometimes have my go to boots, and if they weren't the recommended boots, I would accidentally buy them when I went back to the shop. Like, "uhhh, what do I get? I have no idea. *click on recommended item* Oh, damn."

Playing with a noobie irl friend a couple days ago reminded me of this. (he did it too).


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David Hume

Senior Member

10-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageoffire View Post
Any sort of abuse can be easily stoped

you buy an item, you can return that item until:
1) you use an ability
2) you take or receive damage
3) you leave the fountain.

as far as skill points go, i dont think you should be able to undo them.
Optimal play then requires you to buy all of the gp5 items every time you die and sell them back just before you leave spawn.

It's not "easy," but it's not impossible either. It does require some effort to design the right interaction here.


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ExaltedVanguard

Senior Member

10-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sereg Anfaug View Post
I don't see any reason for a player to be in their base, having never left, after 1:30. If they are, they should be flagged for AFK, not given leniency with item and skill levelup resets. Personally, I'm out of my base within ten seconds of the game start.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boourns View Post
I think it's useful enough to undo a mistake in the shop throughout the game. I would not confine it to the start of the game.
That's why I added the "after 1:30" clause. I guess I didn't make it clear, but the no-combat means "no combat since buying the item," not "no combat in the game ever". You could refund items at any point in the game. Just after 1:30, the restriction is that you can't leave your base before doing so.

I've edited the original post and added this to clarify:

Quote:
EDIT: I guess I didn't make this 100% clear: The no combat clause is only since buying the item. You can refund items any time during the game, but after 1:30, you can't leave your base before doing so. Also, another abuse to be prevented: You may not refund an item if you've used its active ability.


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David Hume

Senior Member

10-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by boourns View Post
Actually with the new HUD we are working on we will show pips to tell you how many points you've put into a skill. That should make situations like starcall more obvious.

You other suggestions are interesting. It's hard to communicate all that and still make it learnable/discoverable, but I agree we could give you some more information about spells. I think in the situations you talk about, making the states more verbose doesn't necessarily help. I would tend towards presenting more of that information in game-space on-demand because that's where people are generally looking. It's a tough problem though because you don't want to obscure the action unnecessarily.
Pips sound awesome!

I'm mixed about what putting information in game-space. I agree that it's the first place people look, and therefore if at all possible the information should go there. Changing Amumu's Despair particles from little dinky tears to the highly visible waves that fill the area of effect was amazing and hugely helpful, but even those aren't easy in the presence of other even more highly visible particles.

Use case: I'm playing Amumu, fighting Anivia. As I approach, I turn on Despair and am hit with her ice cube stun thing. She immediately turns on Glacial Storm, centered on me. I need to know whether or not I got Despair off before the stun, so I can turn it on when the stun wears off. There's a big translucent blue circle particle thing over me, which makes it hard to find my other translucent blue circle particle thing in the 2/3rds of a second before the stun wears off. [It occurs to me that having dedicated on and off buttons for toggle skills would also solve my problem, though then I have different keybindings per character. Also: How come stuns/silences put Anivia's ult on cd but not Amumu/Karth/Sion's toggle AoE? Is Maokai the same way?]

The one solution you don't want to do is get into an arms race between all of the skills to make them visible over each other, so I think you need stuff that is only visible to the player who most cares about them. Traditionally you've put that in the hud, but I'd be 100% okay with configurable Eve detection-radius style guides stuff for my own skills / ranges - holding smartcast to see the range is okay and arguably an acceptable trade for the slight delay, but that means I can't use my other skills and know the instant I'm close enough to reliably land my midrange skillshot.

Attached: mockup for combining cooldown with OOM states.


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Ixyn Lord

Junior Member

10-03-2012

Hi, does the new UI pips when an allied champion is below 30% health like it does on spectator mode? This would really help the new Soraka and Shen* players.


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Lord Pudding Cup

Senior Member

10-03-2012

skill points are locked as they should be once you buy them, but i have to agree if you havent left the fountain let us sell our **** for full price sometimes you just misclick and its "NOooooooo my moneysssssss"