Buffing the sunfire cape

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JJ Unbreakable

Senior Member

09-27-2012

I like the stats on it. 800g is basically to save an item slot.
The passive does drop off late game though.
I wonder if they don't change it because it's fairly strong and cheap if you rush it.
I guess that's the trade off you make.
Get a sunfire early or get something better late-game.


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WonderBoy55

Senior Member

09-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcaneUnleashed View Post
Shen is permabanned and thus doesn't count, I also don't see it on hecarim. Renekton and malphite(and you forgot garen) are 3/104 chamions. In what way is that a good amount?
How many champions buy nashors tooth, or rage blade? just because it's niche doesn't mean its bad. Also "permaban" status doesn't invalidate an items purposes in any way.

Besides this, many other champions can use SFC: amumu, galio, chogath, mundo, garen, nautilus, mordekaiser, nunu, olaf, rammus, nasus, sejuani, singed, skarner, udyr, volibear, warwick, or any tank really.

20/104 champions enough to be worth it?


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Kagami

Senior Member

09-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcaneUnleashed View Post
Shen is permabanned and thus doesn't count, I also don't see it on hecarim. Renekton and malphite(and you forgot garen) are 3/104 chamions. In what way is that a good amount?
Sunfire is a core item for Sejuani even if she is a bit UP :/.


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axesandspears

Senior Member

09-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exdeadman View Post
Oh, I definitely agree with the toggle; I mean, the item's designed to draw aggro, but then again, so is Vorpal Spikes and it has a shutoff.
I don't agree with the toggling because it unreasonably complicates the item's use, and it is only desired for two situations that rarely occur if you know what you are doing.
-Aggroing creeps: How often does this actually happen in the jungle, or turn out to be a problem? Rarely.
-Aggroing turrets: In most circumstances where Sunfire Cape takes a turret's aggro, the player was either tower-diving or harrassing the other player under his/her turret. The player or an allied player would have eventually drawn aggro anyway, so there is nothing to complain about. The one case where a player has legitimate reasons to complain is that the player is farming; however, this could be the player's fault for pushing and the Sunfire Cape helps minimize the time that he/she could be at risk under the turret by killing creeps faster.

Considering the rarity of these cases, and the possible nuissances that toggling sunfire could bring; Sunfire cape is better without a toggle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exdeadman View Post
The base stats probably could be a little better for what you pay; ever since they removed stacking Sunfire Cape and increased the cost, it did become much rarer a pick compared to pure defense items.
That is partially because many of the older bruisers and tanks were replaced by more offensive ad-ratio champions. Sunfire Cape is still one of the best picks for a large number of champions.


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foxfire100

Senior Member

09-28-2012

I was thinking about a different solution to Sunfire Cape (other than increasing the DPS).

What if you decreased the DPS, but made it deal true damage? It wouldn't be unreasonable since Ignite (another fire-related damage dealer) does true damage, so it's not like "nah, fire = magic damage". If you lowered the damage to 30 DPS but made it true damage then you won't have to worry about it falling off late game. A big issue with Sunfire Cape is that early game champions only have 30 MR (plus runes and masteries) but late game most champions have 100-140 (guardian angel, merc treads, banshee's, abyssal scepter, the list of non-tank-specific MR isn't short). With 100+ magic resist the cape is really only doing 20 or less DPS. Then consider that early game champions have ~1000 HP (so 40 DPS is actually ~4% of their health, or a reasonable amount) but late game they have ~2000 HP (the reduced 20 DPS is ~1% of their health). This is 1/4 the total effectiveness late game.

If you changed the Sunfire Cape to deal 30 DPS of true damage then you'd see ~3% of their health early game then ~1.5% late game - only 1/2 the total effectiveness, and a 50% increase in its prior late game effectiveness at the cost of a 25% decrease in early-game.


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XxxLumberJackxxX

Senior Member

09-30-2012

I wouldn't mind if the damage scaled somehow, (based off wearers HP or armor maybe), but I'd actually prefer some more armor or HP when it combines.


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Hadien

Senior Member

09-30-2012

I personally don't think the sunfire cape needs any sort of buff or toggle. People that do are usually thinking of trying to utilize it to be effective for teamfights which is not what I think its meant for at all.

I believe its meant help push lanes as even at 30 minutes it kills minion waves pretty quickly without any Magic Pen (~12s for casters, ~16s for melee, ~30s for Siege; much much faster earlier in the game) and that's WITHOUT doing anything to them or getting any support from your minions. its a great thing to counter major enemy minion pushes and the HP/armor synergizes very well since you're likely gonna be hit by the minions which do physical damage. most of the time there are 6 minions per wave thus if you get right in the middle of it Sunfire alone is doing ~ 240 DPS which beats the pants off of the 20% bonus damage dps on a madreds razors or wriggles, even at max attack speed (and you're not wasting the bonus magic damage in over-killing the minions).

I think its just fine given the investment you have to put into it.


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DaRumpleforeskin

Member

09-30-2012

I think they should make the damage scale, so it does like 40+5*level or something, so it doesn't fall off so hard but it isn't broken


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

09-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by rumpleforeskin1 View Post
I think they should make the damage scale, so it does like 40+5*level or something, so it doesn't fall off so hard but it isn't broken
...It's 40 per second now. 40+(5*level) would be insane scaling, making it 45-130 damage per second.

130. Damage. Per. Second. In an AoE. I'm sorry, did we say we wanted a balanced game, or did we want to play "Everybody's Garen, especially Garen"?


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Unfearing

Member

09-30-2012

They should just completely redo the components or something.
Or they should create a new classification.
ABILITY effect (effect only applies to the effect of THIS item): 50% magic penetration