Bertboxer's Study of Trundle (week two)

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RIP Bankplank

Senior Member

09-25-2012

Hello everyone! I'm Bertboxer and I'll be doing this little series in the champion feedback forum. I'll be looking more in depth at some of the things that League of Legends design does well (and other aspects that aren't quite up to snuff). I have my eye on the associate gameplay analyst position at Riot and I'm hoping some of these prove beneficial. If this is your thing, pull up a chair and enjoy!

Week one post: (making champions play like their personality) http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...1#post29525721


This week, I'll be focusing in on Trundle, the oft-forgotten troll.




A little over a year ago there was a running joke on the forums about the secret society of Trundle players (SSoTP) who would downvote any post mentioning Trundle at all. The thought was that Trundle was a very good champion who was chronically underplayed and those few players wanted to keep him to themselves. If anyone would draw attention to their precious troll, it would lead to flavor of the month play, increased popularity, and inevitable nerfs. While this was quite amusing for a time, the joke eventually died off and many people have forgotten about Trundle entirely.

Lolking statistics place Trundle as one of the least played champions and he consistently has a win rate of under 50% at all levels of play. While the lower win percentage is more of a balance issue, I'm going to focus more today about why Trundle is so seldom played.


For starters, Trundle's model/animations/personality are all generally unappealing. People are drawn to characters that they can associate with on some level as my last big post explained. Players want to feel as though they have Demacia's best interest at heart when they charge in to battle. They want to experience the thrill of the hunt as they stalk their prey. Trundle is kind of a black sheep. He's ugly, rude, and seems slightly out of place. With monstrous characters like Kog'maw or Maokai, the difference in appearance between them and a normal human is pretty drastic. Trundle, however, falls somewhere in the uncanny valley. (if you're unfamiliar with the concept, look here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley). Trundle doesn't appeal to the senses in any way.

Trundle's ability animations also lack much visual punch. His contaminate makes the screen look ill, the pillar of filth isn't that well defined, and his ultimate is almost impossible to see in a teamfight. Its effects are quite dramatic but it is hard to feel positive about an ability that doesn't look like it's doing much. The audio cues aren't that clear either. One positive note I should mention is that the animation on his rabid bite ability is great. The crunch is satisfying and his model responds very quickly. The flaming club is a nice touch for the damage buff as well. The problem with it, though, is that the animation takes a while to complete. This delay in autoattacking actually can decrease overall dps if Trundle has enough attack speed. Aside from this complaint, the Q is well done.

So what does all of this have to do with Trundle's popularity? I have the feeling that a character with identical abilities/stats with a different theme and model would have been more popular than Trundle is. His artstyle is just not appealing to the vast majority of players. If Riot wants to make him popular again, he needs a visual overhaul of the same vein as Soraka. They can easily make him more monstrous, thus sidestepping further out of the uncanny valley. Giving players some new visual candy to work with will make his pillar seem more usable and his ultimate more effective. I believe that Trundle's win rate will increase to be more in line with most other champions without a single numerical change to his kit. Players are just more likely to take the time to learn a character if the character is worth looking at.



Well I hope you enjoyed my somewhat scatterbrained post. I'm open to suggestions for next week!


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RIP Bankplank

Senior Member

09-26-2012

wow, trundle may be more invisible than i thought

bump for more trundle awareness!


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Best Zod NA

Senior Member

09-26-2012

Trundle is the worst champion in the League and anyone who plays him in a knave and a charlatan.

-SSoTP


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Cthulyou

Member

09-26-2012

Former SSoTP member here. You are by all means largely right in all regards. Some visual updates would go a long way.

However the real issue is evolving gameplay left our troll behind. Rabid Bite's animation dropping DPS is an issue, but beyond that, trundle's niche has become crowded. Trundle is a fantastic jungler, his mobility and sustain defined him. Combo that with his AD theft to create a monster counter jungler.... against anyone doing purely physical damage.... with a slower clear. The jungle has grown into a menacing place though, most junglers are released with AoE spells for quick clear (shyvanna, nocturne, rengar, Diana, etc.) And now there is a lot more magic DMG flying around the forest, as in DMG trundle can't mitigate with rabid bite. Add these with the jungle's less taxing sustain requirements and it is easier to understand why our boy isn't played much these days.

Is he still good? Yes.
Does he need some QoL changes? Unfortunately. I personally would like to see rabid bite steal ap as well as ad, and do very small radius cleave DMG if used on top of his w. Now if you excuse me, my old compatriots must down vote me because I suggested changes to trundle.

TL:DR - op is correct and the troll deserves some QoL changes.


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RIP Bankplank

Senior Member

09-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cthulyou View Post
Former SSoTP member here. You are by all means largely right in all regards. Some visual updates would go a long way.

However the real issue is evolving gameplay left our troll behind. Rabid Bite's animation dropping DPS is an issue, but beyond that, trundle's niche has become crowded. Trundle is a fantastic jungler, his mobility and sustain defined him. Combo that with his AD theft to create a monster counter jungler.... against anyone doing purely physical damage.... with a slower clear. The jungle has grown into a menacing place though, most junglers are released with AoE spells for quick clear (shyvanna, nocturne, rengar, Diana, etc.) And now there is a lot more magic DMG flying around the forest, as in DMG trundle can't mitigate with rabid bite. Add these with the jungle's less taxing sustain requirements and it is easier to understand why our boy isn't played much these days.

Is he still good? Yes.
Does he need some QoL changes? Unfortunately. I personally would like to see rabid bite steal ap as well as ad, and do very small radius cleave DMG if used on top of his w. Now if you excuse me, my old compatriots must down vote me because I suggested changes to trundle.

TLR - op is correct and the troll deserves some QoL changes.

that's an interesting mechanic suggestion with the cleave while standing on contaminate. what if he gained a small armor/magic resist buff when nearby creeps die and his passive procs?


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Dorotheus

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Recruiter

09-27-2012

bump


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RIP Bankplank

Senior Member

09-27-2012

come on people, how about some more discussion


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ISiefer

Senior Member

09-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cthulyou View Post
Former SSoTP member here. You are by all means largely right in all regards. Some visual updates would go a long way.

However the real issue is evolving gameplay left our troll behind. Rabid Bite's animation dropping DPS is an issue, but beyond that, trundle's niche has become crowded. Trundle is a fantastic jungler, his mobility and sustain defined him. Combo that with his AD theft to create a monster counter jungler.... against anyone doing purely physical damage.... with a slower clear. The jungle has grown into a menacing place though, most junglers are released with AoE spells for quick clear (shyvanna, nocturne, rengar, Diana, etc.) And now there is a lot more magic DMG flying around the forest, as in DMG trundle can't mitigate with rabid bite. Add these with the jungle's less taxing sustain requirements and it is easier to understand why our boy isn't played much these days.

Is he still good? Yes.
Does he need some QoL changes? Unfortunately. I personally would like to see rabid bite steal ap as well as ad, and do very small radius cleave DMG if used on top of his w. Now if you excuse me, my old compatriots must down vote me because I suggested changes to trundle.

TLR - op is correct and the troll deserves some QoL changes.
Those are actually really good suggestions. I've never heard them before but they make the most sense. That, and his Q change would make him perfect I think XD

And maybe an animation change to his ult.


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KamakaziGumiBear

Senior Member

09-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by bertboxer View Post
For starters, Trundle's model/animations/personality are all generally unappealing. People are drawn to characters that they can associate with on some level as my last big post explained. Players want to feel as though they have Demacia's best interest at heart when they charge in to battle. They want to experience the thrill of the hunt as they stalk their prey. Trundle is kind of a black sheep. He's ugly, rude, and seems slightly out of place. With monstrous characters like Kog'maw or Maokai, the difference in appearance between them and a normal human is pretty drastic. Trundle, however, falls somewhere in the uncanny valley. (if you're unfamiliar with the concept, look here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley). Trundle doesn't appeal to the senses in any way.
Dude what **** are you on, only RP freaks give two ****s about associating with there character.


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RIP Bankplank

Senior Member

09-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by KamakaziGumiBear View Post
Dude what **** are you on, only RP freaks give two ****s about associating with there character.
characterization and personality play a large role in who someone picks to play, whether he or she is aware of it or not

think of your absolutely least played character. do you like their role? their playstyle? how about their voice-over? their animations? their personality?

not everyone is a competitive ranked player who just knows and owns every champ in the game. when you pick it up and start learning, how the champions are perceived makes a really big difference in how often they are played. this trend can snowball once someone gets into more competitive play, "we need a jungler and i've played trundle for ages. i'm going to go with him".

everyone, at least on some subliminal level, enjoys playing someone they can associate with to some degree


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