So Pantheon...

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Orphane

Senior Member

09-25-2012

l2 last whisper rush


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naotasan

Senior Member

09-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasternation View Post
its bots
I play bots when ever I buy a new champion so I can learn their skill set and how to manipulate those skills in my favor. Not to "practice killing people".

I would not let my team down by playing a champion I've never played before and have them expect me to do good, especially at my elo.


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Phourc

Senior Member

09-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DevlJoe View Post
Oh wait, I know the thing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=192NHK5Rjcs&feature=plcp

ps phourc i'm plugging your stuff here, make more of it.
<3s, I got an in progress one up on my other monitor right now. It's coming.... wait for it....... soon! xP

Nah, I just have a ton of recorded games of me derping instead of being anything worthy of showing off as a 'how to play'. Watching my final one now and passing out, going to finish putting it together in the next few days. I do apologize about the delay, had a bad case of easily distracted this past couple weeks. ):


But yeah, Pantheon!

There's two builds for him really:

I, personally, reccomend a tankier build - watch my vidja to see it in action, basically you're getting your AD and CDR packaged with as much defense as possible.

The other option is pretty glass cannon, but you're still going to try to get your CDR (from runes/masteries, boots and bruta) and Penetration (bruta again and LW) before getting too crazy with BF swords. Build them into things without too much wasted stats for Panth and boom! Scary burst. But you go 'splode when focused ):

Either way, as several people have stated, his scaling isn't the greatest (I have thought a lot about AD caster scaling, but don't want to derail this post more). THE single most damage-increasing item you can build for Pantheon is a Last Whisper, as it increases not only your bonus AD on your skills but the effect of your base damage on your skills (300ish, or 100-150 bonus AD's worth).


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Goronok

Senior Member

09-26-2012

He does seem much less powerful late game... with a 3.6 AD ratio on his main source of damage, and a 1.4-2.1 AD ratio on his secondary source of damage, everything that scales his E/Q also scaling his auto damage... so WHY he scales badly, I'm not sure about, but I'll give you that he does.

I really liked your vid, and I would consider a FH/Maw setup.

One thing I was curious about though... is that I have seen AS setups on Pantheon that seemed to work, at least early game... I assume for boosting autos + passive procs for an offense/defense mix... but I didn't like how they didn't, you know, boost any of his ability damage as an AD caster.


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Infirc

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Senior Member

09-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goronok View Post
He does seem much less powerful late game... with a 3.6 AD ratio on his main source of damage, and a 1.4-2.1 AD ratio on his secondary source of damage, everything that scales his E/Q also scaling his auto damage... so WHY he scales badly, I'm not sure about, but I'll give you that he does.

I really liked your vid, and I would consider a FH/Maw setup.

One thing I was curious about though... is that I have seen AS setups on Pantheon that seemed to work, at least early game... I assume for boosting autos + passive procs for an offense/defense mix... but I didn't like how they didn't, you know, boost any of his ability damage as an AD caster.

the thing with Pantheon is that he is one of the earliest assassins on the league and so he works as an Assassin even if building tanky, extreme burst every couple of seconds with a wind up time while he waits for cds, He should be AAing but shouldn't rely too much on it asides from charging his passive because you get way more juice out of your spells , i forgot te build i posted earlier on the thread there are sometimes you want to get phage before finishing yoomuus, Rushing last whisper is still mandatory though. as for skill order you could try Q-E-W for maximum damage or E-W-Q for constant damage and some utility, the later one is the skill order one of my friends uses with great success although i'd have to ask him.


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Goronok

Senior Member

09-26-2012

Just did a game with pure offense masteries and AD/lvl + CDR runes, but building tanky... enemy team was 3 AD's, a support AP and a burst AP. I ended the game blade-Ninja Tabi-Bruta-FH-Hex-Phage and I think 18-7-3.

I'm liking the tanky build.

I was waiting for one of them to build tank to build a LW but... none of them did so... neither did I. I was thinking if I did LW I'd put it in place of Phage.


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Infirc

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Senior Member

09-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goronok View Post
Just did a game with pure offense masteries and AD/lvl + CDR runes, but building tanky... enemy team was 3 AD's, a support AP and a burst AP. I ended the game blade-Ninja Tabi-Bruta-FH-Hex-Phage and I think 18-7-3.

I'm liking the tanky build.

I was waiting for one of them to build tank to build a LW but... none of them did so... neither did I. I was thinking if I did LW I'd put it in place of Phage.
you shouldn't neglect the last whisper either, some guys get their defenses as fourth or 6 components, if you don't want to rush it, getting an early pickaxe is a strong alternative so that you can still build it when they start stacking armor.


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Phourc

Senior Member

09-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goronok View Post
I was waiting for one of them to build tank to build a LW but... none of them did so... neither did I. I was thinking if I did LW I'd put it in place of Phage.
Even without any tank items, it can be assumed that enemies will get up to 80ish base armor + 6 mastery armor + 13 rune armor, so potentially up to 99 armor without a single armor item, throw in a tabi and it'd be 124 armor with virtually no armor items.

So... with those arbitrary numbers, 124 armor is a 55.4% damage reduction, Last whisper reduces it to 75 (42.8%). This increases your damage from 44.6% to 57.2%, which is a 28% damage increase.

Even without the tabi you're looking at 99 armor (49.7% reduction), 40% reduction takes you to 59 (37.1% reduction). 50.3% damage to 62.9% is a 25% damage increase.

So, making a lot of generalizations, a last whisper should give you at least a quarter more damage than you were doing before. Hardly terrible.


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Goronok

Senior Member

09-27-2012

I wasn't sure how the armor pen interacted with the percent armor ignore, and I don't even remember anyone building tabi, and not everyone has armor from masteries or runes... I couldn't help thinking of people with just that ~80 armor, at 18, and less at every level before, possibly minus 15 from the brut... 40% off 65... well, 24 armor ignored isn't bad, but LW is kind of expensive with a lack of secondary stats for only that much.

I'd normally use Black Cleaver in that situation with other AD's but with Panth's lack of autoing too much that seemed kind of stupid.

It worked for that game, in the future, or if anyone builds any armor at all, LW is likely the way to go... not sure where in the build... probably after a few defensive item components, depending on the enemy team.


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Catnium

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Senior Member

09-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goronok View Post
He does seem much less powerful late game... with a 3.6 AD ratio on his main source of damage, and a 1.4-2.1 AD ratio on his secondary source of damage, everything that scales his E/Q also scaling his auto damage... so WHY he scales badly, I'm not sure about, but I'll give you that he does.
.

thats simple: he scales bad because ad casters dont have an ad version of deathcap , wich is the only reason ap champs scale damage late game , they also don't use aa's as main forms of damage but use skill casts as the main form of their damage , skill casts don't scale with critt were and aa champion will eventually start putting out 900 or more damage aa's your stuck doing your 500 damage skill casts

TLDR: he scales bad because AD casters have no gear that makes them scale into late game damage


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