Jax

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Veni13

Senior Member

09-25-2012

So, I haven't played him in a while and am now brushing up on my jax play. I've noticed I don't do very well with him early-game. Don't get me wrong, in the latter half of the game he's definitely as OP as a champ can get. Is he actually rather weak early-game as compared to later in the game? And if so, how do you deal with it? Play more cautiously earlier, or maybe get early-game runes?


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Warrrrax

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Senior Member

09-25-2012

Do you start with pros blade and boots? Grab a health pot for the windmill fight. Play smart and do NOT rush in to try to stun all 4 enemies by jumping in. Thats dumb. If your team has better poke or initiation, go with the team. Defend from their initiation and use your stun to support the team. Or, go in if you have more melee presence.

Rush Triforce, starting wtih Phage then Sheen. After that, vamp scepter, revolver to hextech gunblade.

Aegis for general purpose defense.

Jax is decent early game but he isn't invincible.


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Orphane

Senior Member

09-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrrrax View Post
Rush Triforce, starting wtih Phage then Sheen. After that, vamp scepter, revolver to hextech gunblade.
Eurgh, funblade. Hang on to the vamp scepter until you need to build Exec's.


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NamKim

Senior Member

09-25-2012

If early game is your problem, do not underestimate the power of The Brutalizer. It is only 1337 gold (yes, it really is 1337 gold), gives AD, CDR, and Armor Pen. I used to overlook this item but Sauron commented that it was incredibly cost effective and I have to agree. I tend to get this item before I start getting the Trinity Force components.

But it really does come down to personal preference and your playstyle. My suggestion has always been to look towards guides for inspiration, but also experiment a little. There will be those people who will judge you on your build regardless of if it works or not. My Jax build is heavily based on what Sauron said his build was yet I get criticized whenever I am doing poorly because I build Jax AD so I tend to not get Hextech Revolver. Plus, I tend to have a hard time using actives so I could never use that item's full potential anyways.


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Goronok

Senior Member

09-25-2012

He is a bit weak early. So what I do is... play safe. Wait for others to initiate, be ready to pull back as needed, act as DPS support. I always start out blade/boots for Windmill to at least have a good amount of health and a little mobility, then rush Sheen and go back to finish my boots. Sheen is the key to being dangerous early, without it you... really don't have much else. It's once you have Sheen and hit 6 for your ult that you start to shine... around 11 with Trinity Force I'd say is when Jax really stops feeling average and starts feeling like a monster.

If you're bot just... play it safe, stay near your tower till you get your ult and your Sheen, then play it by ear.

I know it's not your problem area, but just as a note, Jax scales much stronger with AD than AP, does the vast majority of his damage physical, and hybrid doesn't get you past tank armor NEARLY as well as just building some armor pen after Trinity and going AD.


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Warrrrax

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Senior Member

09-25-2012

Jax does scale a bit better with AD, but is fully capable of working off of AP too, which also rounds out his defenses better with his ult.
Remember that AP is twice as cheap as AD.

Leapstrike: 1.0 AD, vs 0.6 AP. winner is AP by a small margin.
Empower: 1.0 AD (in theory since it is an autoattack resetter), vs 0.6 AP. AP wins again.
Counterstrike: 0.5 AD. no AP scaling whatsoever. AD wins, tho CS isnt near as spammable.
Ult: 0.7 AP per 3 hits = .233 each (vs 1.0 for normal AD on autoattacks of course)

Magic resist from Ult also scales a bit better. 0.2 AP vs 0.3 AD.


AP is better for burst whereas AD is better for sustain. You should definitely go AD with Jax, but note that he CAN use AP although I would not focus on it.


Most can agree that TriForce is huge benefit on Jax. You can take whatever else from that point and probably do just fine.

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As for gunblade, the vamp scepter is obviously good for sustain, and the Revolver is pretty good too. Revolver gives 12% spell vamp for 400g basically which is about on Par with a Vamp Scepter.
However, it tends to give more health up front since Leapstrike/Empower/Counterstrike are all spells and have decent base damages up front of 230/180/150-300. Therefore it is better than Lifesteal per point and it is nice to have both abilities since they work in different ways, vs lots of 1 type.

From there, the Gunblade is still a pretty efficient upgrade, costing an extra 1900ish gold, giving 8% vamp, 5% lifesteal, 30 AP, 40 AD and the Slow/Nuke. (worth about 500+600+1600 = 2700g +nuke)

You can also go with piecemeal crit if desired instead of the sustain of gunblade, which works fine too.


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Catnium

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Senior Member

09-25-2012

change your runes.
thats a garen rune page with a critt rune that should not be there


your other page ( y u no moar rune pages?) might do but jax really dont need most of those runes

use runes to get more power in your early game


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Veni13

Senior Member

09-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NamKim View Post
My Jax build is heavily based on what Sauron said his build was yet I get criticized whenever I am doing poorly because I build Jax AD so I tend to not get Hextech Revolver. Plus, I tend to have a hard time using actives so I could never use that item's full potential anyways.
What sort of build is that? I went for prosp/boots/2 hp pots opening, and then phage, exec, complete triforce, ending with LW. Was starting to build atma's when the game ended.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Catnium View Post
change your runes.
thats a garen rune page with a critt rune that should not be there


your other page ( y u no moar rune pages?) might do but jax really dont need most of those runes

use runes to get more power in your early game
What runes would you recommend running for Jax? I've mostly been focusing on buying champs than rune pages, and since I don't use RP, it's slow going.


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Goronok

Senior Member

09-25-2012

I find Phage too early to be inefficient, it has far too little up time with no AS, you're very lucky if it goes off once in a fight. That's why I get Sheen and Zeal first, for damage output with Sheen, and damage output/AS setup for Phage/mobility with Zeal. I mean, with Phage, you get HP's and a little AD, and Phage gets good once you do have more AS later, so it's not a waste but... compared to Sheen or Zeal... meh. And of course if you get it third (as the third part of TF, not third overall), you have more AS through Zeal, natural AS gain through leveling, and your passive being more powerful by the time you do get it... the longer you wait, the more powerful it is... and getting it as the final piece of TF seems like just the right spot, for me.

As for AD vs AP scaling, one way to look at it is a per-second view. Early mid game, say your AS is averaging around 1.5 (1.0 AD .233 AP per attack), and your E is at 3 seconds (0.6 AP). Every second, you're getting roughly 1.5 AD scaling, and .466 AP scaling. It's hard with Jax because his scaling and AS shift around so much, but pretty much the more AS you have, the more it's going to go in favor of AD, and the more AD items you have the better AD is, as AD items scale and improve each other... the more of any one of AD/AS/crit/arPen you have, the more the other three are worth naturally.

The way it seems to work out is that hybrid is stronger mid game (because you can get more total damage out of gunblade, mostly), but with AD items scaling each other, AD is more devastating late game against squishies... while against tanks, I tend to prefer building a LW and then pour on the AD, cuts through their armor a *lot* more efficiently than just mixed damage.

Both work, obviously, just championing the AD approach because it's the one I've come to love, and found to be more effective.


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Volandum

Senior Member

09-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrrrax View Post
Jax does scale a bit better with AD, but is fully capable of working off of AP too, which also rounds out his defenses better with his ult.
Remember that AP is twice as cheap as AD.

Leapstrike: 1.0 AD, vs 0.6 AP. winner is AP by a small margin.
Empower: 1.0 AD (in theory since it is an autoattack resetter), vs 0.6 AP. AP wins again.
Counterstrike: 0.5 AD. no AP scaling whatsoever. AD wins, tho CS isnt near as spammable.
Ult: 0.7 AP per 3 hits = .233 each (vs 1.0 for normal AD on autoattacks of course)

Magic resist from Ult also scales a bit better. 0.2 AP vs 0.3 AD.


AP is better for burst whereas AD is better for sustain. You should definitely go AD with Jax, but note that he CAN use AP although I would not focus on it.


Most can agree that TriForce is huge benefit on Jax. You can take whatever else from that point and probably do just fine.

------------------
As for gunblade, the vamp scepter is obviously good for sustain, and the Revolver is pretty good too. Revolver gives 12% spell vamp for 400g basically which is about on Par with a Vamp Scepter.
However, it tends to give more health up front since Leapstrike/Empower/Counterstrike are all spells and have decent base damages up front of 230/180/150-300. Therefore it is better than Lifesteal per point and it is nice to have both abilities since they work in different ways, vs lots of 1 type.

From there, the Gunblade is still a pretty efficient upgrade, costing an extra 1900ish gold, giving 8% vamp, 5% lifesteal, 30 AP, 40 AD and the Slow/Nuke. (worth about 500+600+1600 = 2700g +nuke)

You can also go with piecemeal crit if desired instead of the sustain of gunblade, which works fine too.
AD scales far better once you remember that jax is very auto centered and thus crit greatly increases your ad scaling, making the ratios on W and R look much better.

Revolver has also been nerfed to 10%.


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