Question about Orianna

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Luxiere

Senior Member

09-25-2012

Hello.

I just bought Orianna like minutes ago and everything about her is amazing. Before trying her out on normal games, I want to know what an Orianna player should know.

Here are some questions about her that would help me understand her better:

1. Does Orianna have any direct counters? (Like, champions that are nearly impossible for her to counter)

2. Is she mana hungry?

3. Should her Q be used for harass or farming? Does it have to be used a lot?

4. Does she have any bursty combo?

5. Is Orianna really that difficult to use?

6. What's her role in a team fight?

7. Is auto attacking good for Orianna because of her passive?

8. How does she gank other lanes?

9. Is she used often on high elo and low elo?

10. Is it fine if I build her boots, double dorans, upgrade to Sorc boots, RoA, Deathcap, Void Staff, Zhonya?

11. Is Orianna an aggressive mid laner or a passive farm laner?

A lot of questions here- I guess. Simple answers would be fine too, but if you can get in detail, please do :)


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Duriel

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Senior Member

09-25-2012

1: Not really. Orianna can do most any matchup and go 50/50
2: No. If you can manage your mana you'll be fine, if you spam a ton.. then yeah of course
3: Farming at tower, Harassing & Zoning. No, you can position it whenever, just be aware it'll come back if you go too far
4: Q > RW > E or E your ally, they go in > RW > Q. She's got a lot of followup.
5: Yes. As a champion, using her isn't all too difficult, but if you want to learn everything and abuse it, yes.
6: AP Carry, obviously. Zone the enemy, wait for an initiation unless you can initiate without any backlash.
7: Of course, just don't unintentionally push your lane a ton.
8: Dissonance up or down to a lane, lead your ball to where they're running, RW. Your allies should follow up..
9: Yeah, not an absurd amount, but she's picked every so often
10: No. NONONONO. Never go 2x dorans into RoA. NEVER. A better build is Boots + Chalice + Sorc's > Athene's & Deathcap, Void/Zhonya's etc.
11: Either. She can be aggressive if the lane allows for it, or passive if she's facing someone with more damage than her.


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Hitro

Senior Member

09-25-2012

ill answer a few of these

1. She certainly has annoying fights, such as kassadin or leblanc but true counters not alot she has alot of range.

2. She can be, depends if you spam your skills and what your build is, its generally best to just harrass with Q as its on a low cooldown and doesnt cost tons of mana but you can sprinkle in some W's for extra damage and increased zoning.

3. Its mainly used for zoning however it can be used for farming and harrass very well.

4.Q into enemy team/ hit R/ hit W on all of their faces/ E the person on your team charging in to kill them.

5. i cant really say

6. protecting and harrass try to stay back unless you build pretty tanky and still probally a good idea so that you cant as easily get focused.

7. yes get a few AA's off in lane againts people, if you take off your ball your AA range increases by 25 i beleive. You can also go Q/W/AA's

8. very well, though should practice ganking my self, start going top lane throw out Q hit with aa if, you hit with ball press W and if you want to finish or you think they might get away ult and then do extra damage.

9. pros use her quite a bit, shes a little team reliant so i dont know about low elo

10. you can build her how you wish, its reallly preferance.

11. she can be played either way, aggressive is probally the better one, but always make sure you hit that harm with your AA, if you miss it throw your ball to get it if you feel that is worth it.

im sorry i would answer better but i have school in about 2 minutes
good luck


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Valkurono

Senior Member

09-25-2012

+1s to all the guys above, but... After playing her traditional ap... try this build out for the lols.

Zerks->Malady->Wits End->Madrids-> Guinsoos-> Deathcap-> lichbane

(Dont recommend it for pvp though, its just a "im bored, lets be different build" teemo does that better anyways)


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ikbas

Junior Member

09-27-2012

One really useful item i use with ori is archangels. I rush it and i always end up with full stacks. But I play a lot more aggressive so i build will of the ancients. Ori is very good laning and you can usually win your lane because of the short cooldowns of your skills. just use your q to wipe out the minion waves and use q>e to take out the caster creeps quickly. Just remember to abuse her range and not to dive. And im not too sure how others play her but i max her e second for the shield and damage.


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Smittens91

Senior Member

09-27-2012

I played Orianna as a mage in Mid for a very long time after I bought her, but after a little bit of messing around found she didn't scale too much late game for TEAMFIGHTS. I use caps there for a reason: If you do as I love to do and hide in the bush, waiting for a carry to come by, then yes it is very rewarding to DFG > Q > R > AA > W > E with a DFG (obv), DCap, LB, etc. However in ranked games, there seems to be a bit less of wandering late game and you don't get to use the combo much. I've found using her as a 0cs Support bot lane turns out to be VERY rewarding. Here are a few reasons why:

1.) It makes her passive feel useful. You can see the damage it's doing as free harass on the enemy ADC. Most carries run with armor runes nowadays, so the magic damage on top of it helps cut through some of that.

2.) Her passive on her E will mean you win 2v2 toe to toe AA wars pretty consistently. The shield isn't too bad to boot, and saves people all the time. Running her as an AP Mid kind of makes her shield seem lackluster, since it's not ranked up past 1 until max level.

3.) Two words: Free Wards. Oh no, you've been farming bot lane for 12 mins now and all your wards down. You've managed to push the lane a bit (because let's be honest: if you're support, your ADC sucks and doesn't know how to keep lane at river =P) and are afraid of a jungle gank. No fear! Toss a Q and give yourself peace of mind.

4.) Her base damage isn't quite abysmal. I've accidentally taken a few kills from my Carry by mashing my R when they were getting close to dying. The disruption your ulti causes is very nice when the enemy tries to run, but it's not hitting like a pillow by any means.

5.) Even if you failed to ward properly or that sneak Evelyn knows your tricks, you can still usually escape a gank with a well timed E > W, and if needed an E > W > Q > R to pull the enemy away. The movement speed modifier of your W is almost doubled if done properly, as it slows the pursuers down by the same amount. Wont save you every time, but definitely a great tool to have.

I may just be a 1k elo noob who hasn't been playing her Mid to her full potential, but I really do believe in the current meta she works best as a bot support with the right items/runes/masteries.


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Ossilliath

Senior Member

09-27-2012

I find Ori to have a bit of a slow start. Those first few levels are tough for me, but give me a chance to back and get a chalice and it's great fun.

Constant harass, fairly forgiving cooldowns/mana cost and is just heaps of fun. I played 2-3 bot games before I played pvp, and it helped a heap. She's not too hard to use, but you really need to get her range down and how long the ball takes to travel.

I've never played her support as the above poster has, but I'd love to try it. That zoning potential and being a general nuisance to the other team seems very fun.

EDIT: Just like to point out. She's fricken awesome in team fights for certain comps. her ult pulls them all into a nice bunch for easier AoE. Amumu ult into Ori ult into Kennen/Fiddles ult does a lot.


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Valrcrist

Senior Member

09-28-2012

Quote:
10: No. NONONONO. Never go 2x dorans into RoA. NEVER. A better build is Boots + Chalice + Sorc's > Athene's & Deathcap, Void/Zhonya's etc.
RoA isn't good on Ori, but if you know your jungler will give you blue, boots -> 2x doran's -> Sorc shoes-> Deathcap is actually a stronger build than going athene's, since you won't need the mana regen from athene's with a blue buff, and deathcap gives you more damage more quickly.


Quote:
One really useful item i use with ori is archangels. I rush it and i always end up with full stacks.
To paraphrase the above quote..no no no no no. Archangel's is a TERRIBLE item on Orianna. She's not Ryze who gets a benefit from max mana, or Kassadin or Karthus, who use a lot of mana over a short duration (although I don't think archangel's is good on them either.) Not only is archangel's expensive, but a tear gives you no benefit early/mid game, and you won't see the full benefit on archangel's until it's fully stacked, which takes a long time. To put things in perspective, even a fully stacked archangel's will only give you 120 AP total at level 18. Rabadon's on the other hand, while it does cost 800 more gold, gives you 182 AP BY ITSELF. That doesn't even take into account the additional 30% AP it gives you on other items.


Quote:
I may just be a 1k elo noob who hasn't been playing her Mid to her full potential, but I really do believe in the current meta she works best as a bot support with the right items/runes/masteries.
She really is better as an AP mid, it's just that her playstyle is unique, and a bit difficult to get used to. She plays as an early game lane bully with her long range zoning/harass and her great auto attack harass. Her burst damage with an Q -> R -> W combo is absolutely phenomenal even in mid game, particularly since it's AoE. Late game she transitions into this weird combination of burst/CC + sustained damage + utility, since her ult + W is still respectable respectable AoE burst even late game, since they can be cast in quick succession and come out to be 550 damage with a 1.4 AP ratio total. Her E is a respectable shield, particularly given how low the cooldown is (especially with CDR), and it also gives a nice chunk of MR, but she also has surprisingly good sustained damage with her Q. She's certainly no Cassiopeia or Ryze in that regard, but with 40% CDR, her Q has only a 1.8 second cooldown.

The problem that a lot of people have with Orianna, is getting used to this transition from an early game harasser/burst mage, into a late game hybrid/utility mage, since no other AP mids really transition in the same way.


Quote:
I find Ori to have a bit of a slow start. Those first few levels are tough for me, but give me a chance to back and get a chalice and it's great fun.
Orianna actually has one of the best early games thanks to her passive. Auto attack harass with her for the first few levels is quite strong, and then as she gets more levels, she can become a really strong lane bully.


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Braeus Faustus

Member

09-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valrcrist View Post
RoA isn't good on Ori, but if you know your jungler will give you blue, boots -> 2x doran's -> Sorc shoes-> Deathcap is actually a stronger build than going athene's, since you won't need the mana regen from athene's with a blue buff, and deathcap gives you more damage more quickly.




To paraphrase the above quote..no no no no no. Archangel's is a TERRIBLE item on Orianna. She's not Ryze who gets a benefit from max mana, or Kassadin or Karthus, who use a lot of mana over a short duration (although I don't think archangel's is good on them either.) Not only is archangel's expensive, but a tear gives you no benefit early/mid game, and you won't see the full benefit on archangel's until it's fully stacked, which takes a long time. To put things in perspective, even a fully stacked archangel's will only give you 120 AP total at level 18. Rabadon's on the other hand, while it does cost 800 more gold, gives you 182 AP BY ITSELF. That doesn't even take into account the additional 30% AP it gives you on other items.




She really is better as an AP mid, it's just that her playstyle is unique, and a bit difficult to get used to. She plays as an early game lane bully with her long range zoning/harass and her great auto attack harass. Her burst damage with an Q -> R -> W combo is absolutely phenomenal even in mid game, particularly since it's AoE. Late game she transitions into this weird combination of burst/CC + sustained damage + utility, since her ult + W is still respectable respectable AoE burst even late game, since they can be cast in quick succession and come out to be 550 damage with a 1.4 AP ratio total. Her E is a respectable shield, particularly given how low the cooldown is (especially with CDR), and it also gives a nice chunk of MR, but she also has surprisingly good sustained damage with her Q. She's certainly no Cassiopeia or Ryze in that regard, but with 40% CDR, her Q has only a 1.8 second cooldown.

The problem that a lot of people have with Orianna, is getting used to this transition from an early game harasser/burst mage, into a late game hybrid/utility mage, since no other AP mids really transition in the same way.




Orianna actually has one of the best early games thanks to her passive. Auto attack harass with her for the first few levels is quite strong, and then as she gets more levels, she can become a really strong lane bully.
Granted, I wouldn't consider myself a very good Orianna player, but I've found RoA and AA staff to both be very helpful in the number one problem I have as Orianna, which is mana. The Tear early/mid game especially lets me use my abilities WAY more often, which helps a ton in holding lane, because I tend to run out of mana from using my Q quickly. The RoA doesn't do quite as good a job, but it's still helpful, and I usually find that by the time it gets to its full mana boost, I'm not having anymore troubles with mana. Plus it gives a nice health and AP boost.

Naturally the Deathcap will give more AP, but does that really make up for the usefulness of the RoA or AA in their mana preservation?

Maybe I'm just not using her skills effectively, or maybe you're suggesting that the Chalice or blue is all Ori needs for mana early/mid game, which I admittedly have not had that much experience with. Would you or anyone else care to answer this?


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Valrcrist

Senior Member

09-28-2012

Quote:
Maybe I'm just not using her skills effectively, or maybe you're suggesting that the Chalice or blue is all Ori needs for mana early/mid game, which I admittedly have not had that much experience with. Would you or anyone else care to answer this?
Chalice is enough. Chalice actually provides a larger overall mana pool than RoA or Tear, over the duration that Orianna needs mana. The reason that you build RoA on Karthus or Kass, is because their abilities are burst mana usage. Karthus' defile at max rank costs 72 mana per second, on top of any other skill usage, and he might need to have it up for 10+ seconds at a time. In order to actually KEEP it up, RoA is very useful on him, because it provides a larger base mana pool.

Orianna on the other hand, chains abilities together, but it's generally over a longer duration, she's never going to need to use 1k mana in a 10 second span. Chalice on its own is better than Tear, simply because it provides you with MR, which, combined with Orianna's E passive, gives her more MR than most lane opponents and lets her win trades as a result. Chalice ALSO builds into Athene's, which is more immediately useful than an Archangel's is. Athene's will give you all the mana regen you could possibly ever need on Orianna, CDR, which is actually quite good on her, as it lets her spam her Q, and makes her E and W have fairly short cooldowns as well, and a flat 90 AP right off the bat. For Archangel's to give you that much AP, you would need to have 1500 mana, which is actually quite a lot.

You may also just be spamming Orianna's abilities too much. As I mentioned in my previous post, one of the things that makes Orianna such a lane bully is her auto attack harass. A lot of mids rely on auto attacks early in the game for extra harass, so you can Q + auto attack with her, and it will be a significant chunk of damage on someone for very cheap mana, since her Q costs a flat 50 mana at all ranks. You shouldn't be spamming all of your abilities on her in lane, really only your Q to zone the other player, and the occasional W if you land your Q on them. Q + W + auto attack follow up is actually a lot of damage on someone.


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