Pantheon or Xin Zhao?

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Gaimcap

Senior Member

09-24-2010

I can tell you, as an individual who plays a lot of squishies and support characters... A well played Xin is ****ing scary... Unless my entire team is there to drop him and chain CC/blind him, I am dead. I think the only competitor to Xin in this regard is Akali... but even then, Xin is still much scarier. Pantheon is only slightly annoying but good for high mobility teams (him plus Shen + a teleport support means you will ALWAYS have the numbers advantage).


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Sir Cowdog

Senior Member

09-24-2010

I've been playing a LOT of Pantheon lately. He is a very good early and mid game champ, but loses effectiveness in the late game.

His spear throw is cheap on the mana bar, and the cooldown is super fast. Probably one of the best last-hit abilities there is, while still being an excellent harass move as well. His passive is somewhat weak, IMO. Good for stopping an occasional hit from an enemy champ, but large herds of minions will rip you apart. The ult does provide nearly unparalleled mobility around the map, but the long cast time and telegraphed AoE make it VERY difficult to use effectively as damage. I've found its more useful to cut off runners or to scare an enemy team into moving a certain direction.

But don't let all that confuse you. A well played Pantheon can really make a huge difference in the early/mid game with superior ganking and harass ability. Most games I've won with Panth are because I kept the enemy out of range of creep waves with low life. He is definitely an effective anti-carry.


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Villiroth

Senior Member

09-24-2010

A well played Xin is chock full of win. BUT as someone that almost exclusively plays Pantheon I can tell you hes no joke(and doesnt listen to the above poster, hes building wrong if he loses effectiveness late game).

Pantheons largest disadvantages is his ult(the enemys have 2.5 seconds to get out of the middle) and the fact that he essentially only has 3 abilitys, using heartseeker strike is pointless so just put one level in it for the passive and level everything else. There are far to many AS+AD items to make that an issue(I personally get madreds before IE). His passive is HIGHLY useful and has saved me MANY times when tower diving or getting greedy(just yesterday I pwned olaf, yi and ww back to back because of the passive).

Pant has a nice stun, with CD it becomes invaluable in ganks, team fights and anything else that requires you to kill enemy champs. Oh, it refreshes his Aegis too.

Xins abilitys are VERY synergistic, meaning they fit quite nicely together. His passive is quite nice and reducing CD's with attacks is always a plus. A slow and a mini-stun(knock up) combined with his (overly) synergistic skills make him a force to be dealt with quickly.

Its all about personal preference, I love Pantheon and can utterly wreck almost any champ with my eyes closed.

***edit***
The only creeps to negate pants passive are super minions and the occasional crit(do minions even crit hit?) from a caster minion, it blocks any damage over 40.


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DeClawd

Senior Member

09-24-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Villiroth View Post
A well played Xin is chock full of win. BUT as someone that almost exclusively plays Pantheon I can tell you hes no joke(and doesnt listen to the above poster, hes building wrong if he loses effectiveness late game).

Pantheons largest disadvantages is his ult(the enemys have 2.5 seconds to get out of the middle) and the fact that he essentially only has 3 abilitys, using heartseeker strike is pointless so just put one level in it for the passive and level everything else. There are far to many AS+AD items to make that an issue(I personally get madreds before IE). His passive is HIGHLY useful and has saved me MANY times when tower diving or getting greedy(just yesterday I pwned olaf, yi and ww back to back because of the passive).

Pant has a nice stun, with CD it becomes invaluable in ganks, team fights and anything else that requires you to kill enemy champs. Oh, it refreshes his Aegis too.

Xins abilitys are VERY synergistic, meaning they fit quite nicely together. His passive is quite nice and reducing CD's with attacks is always a plus. A slow and a mini-stun(knock up) combined with his (overly) synergistic skills make him a force to be dealt with quickly.

Its all about personal preference, I love Pantheon and can utterly wreck almost any champ with my eyes closed.

***edit***
The only creeps to negate pants passive are super minions and the occasional crit(do minions even crit hit?) from a caster minion, it blocks any damage over 40.
I've played 1500ish games so far, ~820 wins, 700ish on Pantheon...He is my favorite champion!

I agree with most of Villiroth's post quoted above, except for some points about HSS.

HSS is broken, I agree...it does terrible damage for its mana cost and time it takes to sit there channeling. Due to this fact, I actually level this ability before Aegis (W) to give it some semblence of effectiveness, and here is why:

Lets say you're Level 8, not really fed, just average, should be at about ~150 - 160 AD:

Rank 5 W: 150 AP dmg single target, 2s stun. Not gonna lie, twice the stun duration of rank 1 is great for locking a target down, however rank 1 stun is long enough to finish your HSS on 'em (unless they flash out). HSS does ~310 Phys dmg to all champs caught. Factor in armor reduction, not really worth it, rather just auto attack a single champ for more dmg and possibility of a crit.

Rank 5 E: ~630 Phys dmg to all champs caught in it. AOZ does 50AP and stuns for 1s. Now it's actually useful...not amazing, but hits hard enough to make advancing champions think twice, and it gives Panth an AOE tool to:
A. Defend tower from a push
B. When spearshot down, and fleeing hurt hero running outside of auto atk range, or if you are rooted, good way to get a kill you otherwise wouldn't have gotten
D. Synergize with your ult if you hit more than one champ, leap on one, direct HSS to hit both, and with the ult dmg/HSS they should both be close to the 15% for your auto attack to auto crit, huck a spear at one, auto attack the other, get 1 if not 2 kills you wouldn't have gotten without the HSS.
E. Farm minions

So, I have found in my many many Pantheon games, maxing E before W provides Pantheon with more versatility and killing power.

Again, I want to note that I agree HSS needs more damage, the nerfbat hit it a little too hard, but that is all the more reason to try to max it's rank earlier so you're not running around with a blank ability slot.


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Villiroth

Senior Member

09-24-2010

Made some good points, but HSS is highly situational. Its far too easy to get out of before its done its max damage, so using it on a fleeing opponent isnt that great of a strategy imo.

I may have to work that into my ult combo and see how it works. Also, doesnt the passive go away after you use the active? I cba to log in atm to check to see if its some off the wall passive that doesnt.


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DeClawd

Senior Member

09-24-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Villiroth View Post
Made some good points, but HSS is highly situational. Its far too easy to get out of before its done its max damage, so using it on a fleeing opponent isnt that great of a strategy imo.

I may have to work that into my ult combo and see how it works. Also, doesnt the passive go away after you use the active? I cba to log in atm to check to see if its some off the wall passive that doesnt.
On your first note, it is situational, so it is best used on advancing enemies, or right after you ult (they're slowed for enough time for you to finish HSS on 'em). The note on fleeing enemies...again, situational. You mainly want to use HSS on a clump right next to you to maximize it's cone, but there have been countless times when I was rooted, or put behind an ice wall, etc. where tossing my HSS for a few ticks got the finish where I couldn't AOZ jump, spear throw, flash, etc. It's an extra tool at your disposal when the more preferable 'finishes' are cooling, or not possible. It's not targetted either, so you can throw it regardless of whether or not you can click on them, another situational thing.

The passive remains regardless of using the active, it's on all the time.


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Villiroth

Senior Member

09-24-2010

I did not realize that about the passive, you sir have just expanded my game, thank you.


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Encoding

Senior Member

09-24-2010

Xin Zhao will carry well into late game.

Pantheon is strong early game but tapers off late game. Therefor, he must be fed to carry late game.


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Phevnil

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Member

09-25-2010

I played a lot of Pantheon back before his big nerf, which I think was a bit much. I stopped playing him until just this week. It was all because I played a game, a premade with me and three friends, where our fifth wheel played a tank panth build. He did really poorly, but I decided it could be fun. I played three games as health build pantheon last night, and one the night before that, in which I did ridiculously well. The most recent game, the one I can remember my score for since the servers are down and I can not check, went fifty five minutes and I ended with 15/2/13. Do you know what point I did the best at? The end game. Really, try a good tank Pantheon build, you sacrifice a ridiculous mid game for a better than average mid game and receive actual viability at the end game. You are just as good early game too.
I had a bit over 3300 health, about 1.5 attack speed, and just under 300 attack damage. The damage really comes together about forty minutes in when I get Atma’s impaler.

Edit: I was not fed either. I was soloing in top against a good Mordekiaser. I just pulled a lot of good ganks with my ult in mid, bottom, and even on their forest warwick.


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