Ad assassinated items? Black cleaver?

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Weekend Spartan

Senior Member

09-23-2012

Okay. Quick question guys.

Say I'm playing shaco. Or even the new Guy kha zix. Now. My job is to quickly jump into a fight or flank the enemy and completely murderize the adc.

What will give me the biggest burst potential?

is bc a better item than last whisper? My reasoning is as am assassin I'm not targeting their tank. So the armour reduction is more effective than -% armour.


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Kyzrathnosh

Senior Member

09-23-2012

BC would make you deal quite a bit more damage against an ADC, especially if you can land one of those 3 hits before really closing in (Two-poison Shiv, I'm lookin' at you). It's also worthy of mention that this is one of the only three items in-game that gives both AD and AS, and that the AD boost is higher than the other two items that give that. (TForce, Madred's Bloodrazor).


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Vusn

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Senior Member

09-23-2012

A Shaco with 20 min IE can deceive + kill adc instantly

If you do want arpen go with brutalizer. It's cheap and gets the job done against non tanks.


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Bravest Leader

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Senior Member

09-23-2012

if you are playing shaco, go for a ghostblade


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XxxLumberJackxxX

Senior Member

09-23-2012

Doesn't infinity edge scale with Q?


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Ouroborous HD

Senior Member

09-23-2012

with shaco you want to rush ie as fast as possible as it makes his deceive do godlike amounts of damage. attack speed isnt needed on shaco as much since you can turn a duel into 2 v 1 with your ult. a chasedown item is a good idea in case the adc has flash, i prefer frozen mallet for the massive health boost but phantom dancer is also a possible choice since it gives massive speed. main thing you should concern yourself with is killing your target in one to two hits. with shaco never chase unless you have the means to do so and if their tank is way far away from the target.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

09-23-2012

Against an ADC, I'm not typically overly worried about armor pen or armor reduction against them. It's rare that you see them build that much armor. Armor stripping is for taking down the bruisers.

And really, there are two differences of note between Armor Penetration of Last Whisper and armor reduction of Black Cleaver. First, Black Cleaver will strip away 45 armor when you have all three stacks up (the equivalent of a chain vest). For Last Whisper to bypass this much armor, they must have 112.5 armor. Any time the target has more than 112.5 armor, Last Whisper will result in more armor bypassed (and will bypass that amount from the first hit on, not the 3rd hit on).

But there's another important difference. Last Whisper only lets you bypass the armor. Black Cleaver, on the other hand, strips the armor away and will let everyone bypass that armor. So, supposing there is a champion with 120 armor. If you're by yourself, you bypass more armor with Last Whisper. But if you've got a teammate or two nearby, you'll ultimately deal more damage to the target (assuming everyone is hitting the same guy) by building a Black Cleaver, because he'll has 45 less armor for everyone on your team.

This is especially helpful to your ADC who by mid and late game is likely going to be doing a LOT more physical damage than you.



And yes, the unique passive from Infinity Edge that makes critical strikes do 250% damage does effect Shaco's Q. However, it doesn't make the strike do 250% damage.

With 1 rank in Q, Q would normally do 140% damage. With an Infinity Edge, it will do 190%.
With 2 ranks in Q, Q would normally do 160% damage. With an Infinity Edge, it will do 210%.

Etc., on down the line. Infinity Edge adds 50% to the percentage damage the Q does. And for what it's worth, this applies to the Lethality Mastery that adds 10% damage to critical strikes also.

A rank 5 Shaco Q with Lethality Mastery and Infinity Edge will do 280% the damage of a normal auto-attack. If you attack from behind, the passive adds an additional 20% on top. So if your AD is 100, your Q will strike for 280 damage from in front, or 336 damage from behind.


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acosn

Senior Member

09-23-2012

Black Cleaver is more oriented toward soaks. While it's not a bad item assassins and ADC's typically have their gear tables full early game.


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bob000

Senior Member

09-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo View Post
Against an ADC, I'm not typically overly worried about armor pen or armor reduction against them. It's rare that you see them build that much armor. Armor stripping is for taking down the bruisers.

And really, there are two differences of note between Armor Penetration of Last Whisper and armor reduction of Black Cleaver. First, Black Cleaver will strip away 45 armor when you have all three stacks up (the equivalent of a chain vest). For Last Whisper to bypass this much armor, they must have 112.5 armor. Any time the target has more than 112.5 armor, Last Whisper will result in more armor bypassed (and will bypass that amount from the first hit on, not the 3rd hit on).

But there's another important difference. Last Whisper only lets you bypass the armor. Black Cleaver, on the other hand, strips the armor away and will let everyone bypass that armor. So, supposing there is a champion with 120 armor. If you're by yourself, you bypass more armor with Last Whisper. But if you've got a teammate or two nearby, you'll ultimately deal more damage to the target (assuming everyone is hitting the same guy) by building a Black Cleaver, because he'll has 45 less armor for everyone on your team.

This is especially helpful to your ADC who by mid and late game is likely going to be doing a LOT more physical damage than you.



And yes, the unique passive from Infinity Edge that makes critical strikes do 250% damage does effect Shaco's Q. However, it doesn't make the strike do 250% damage.

With 1 rank in Q, Q would normally do 140% damage. With an Infinity Edge, it will do 190%.
With 2 ranks in Q, Q would normally do 160% damage. With an Infinity Edge, it will do 210%.

Etc., on down the line. Infinity Edge adds 50% to the percentage damage the Q does. And for what it's worth, this applies to the Lethality Mastery that adds 10% damage to critical strikes also.

A rank 5 Shaco Q with Lethality Mastery and Infinity Edge will do 280% the damage of a normal auto-attack. If you attack from behind, the passive adds an additional 20% on top. So if your AD is 100, your Q will strike for 280 damage from in front, or 336 damage from behind.
Flat armor pen is better against enemies with low armor.