Full AP Kha'zix: Rengar 2.0?

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Brodhi

Senior Member

09-22-2012

So I've been fooling around with Kha'zix a bit, and to be honest I have no clue why Riot put AP scaling on his Passive. I understand Diana having it on hers because she has to keep attacking a target in order to proc it (unlike Jax's ultimate, her passive stacks go away after about 2-3 seconds), but Kha'zix with an evolved Ultimate is able to proc his passive fairly often if he is in a high-brush area.

I am going to assume that he has some kills and he'll have a DFG and a Deathcap (he is so squishy as AP that he has no need to build into RoA, Zhonya's early, but it may or may not be viable to go into Abyssal if the enemy is stacking MR early). Rune setup is AP Quints, Magic Pen Reds, Armor Runes, and AP/Level Blues (he shouldn't be focused that much in teamfights since you have his ultimate upgraded).

At level 11 he is doing 110 with his passive. With Runes he has 32 Ability Power, 15 from Masteries, 220 from items, with an additional +35% Ability Power bringing him to 361 AP. His passive will gain an additional 180 damage, so a total of 290 every passive proc. Let's assume you aren't in a high-brush area but you can get your passive 4 times (once for simply having it, then 3 more from your ultimate). That's 1160 damage from his passive that can be proc'd in 3-4 seconds, not counting the 12% of your Max health you are taking from his Q if you are isolated and the burst from DFG.

At level 18 he should have DFG, Deathcap, Abyssal, and Zhonya's, bringing his AP up to 614. His passive will be doing 220 damage with an additional 307 damage for a total of 527 total damage, which when proc'd 4 times means he can do 2108 damage in 3-4 seconds.

Just some math I was tossing around. Do you guys think that the ratio should be reduced/removed as it is now or that AP Kha'zix will not have the same impact that AP Rengar did to the game?


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Stickers5976

Member

09-22-2012

I was actually wondering how AP Kha'Zix would work (I can't quite test it myself, seeing as how I have a computer that won't load champ select fast enough for me to beat instalockers).

Tell me, does it also power his W, also scaling the healing done by it? He might be semi-viable as an AP nuker despite most of his skills dealing physical damage. Just thinking aloud here.


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Brodhi

Senior Member

09-22-2012

His only AP scaling is on his passive and on the healing from his W, the damage done by Q/W/E are all Bonus Attack Damage. But coupled with DFG and Evolved Q (when an enemy is isolated) you can do upwards of 40-60% of their max health just from the get go and quickly finish them off with your ultimate.

The only problem I see here is that there are no viable lanes for him to go safely if you run the AP route. Unlike Rengar, who had tankiness built into his W, Kha'zix has to rely on his ultimate to avoid being completely manhandled by top lane bruisers. In the mid lane his only source of "free farm" is his W, which does abysmal damage since you are AP and has a high mana cost. So I was forced to Jungle and used the heal from W to survive the clear times.

To be honest he could be similar to Kennen who you can start out as AD (buy a Doran's Blade or two) for the harass, then sell it all once you've passed the laning phase for AP items and have him decimate the opposition with his burst.


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Stickers5976

Member

09-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodhi View Post
His only AP scaling is on his passive and on the healing from his W, the damage done by Q/W/E are all Bonus Attack Damage. But coupled with DFG and Evolved Q (when an enemy is isolated) you can do upwards of 40-60% of their max health just from the get go and quickly finish them off with your ultimate.

The only problem I see here is that there are no viable lanes for him to go safely if you run the AP route. Unlike Rengar, who had tankiness built into his W, Kha'zix has to rely on his ultimate to avoid being completely manhandled by top lane bruisers. In the mid lane his only source of "free farm" is his W, which does abysmal damage since you are AP and has a high mana cost. So I was forced to Jungle and used the heal from W to survive the clear times.

To be honest he could be similar to Kennen who you can start out as AD (buy a Doran's Blade or two) for the harass, then sell it all once you've passed the laning phase for AP items and have him decimate the opposition with his burst.
Ah, okay. I'm not sure if this is something we may want to change or not. On the one hand, he is fulfilling his role as an assassin, jumping out and dealing massive burst damage. It sounds like he's quite item and ult reliant, and quite squishy, so high cd's and low health as far as downsides go.

I do think it's a bit strong if he's chunking 40-60% of their max health, then finishing them off with his ult. How many ult charges would you say it would take to finish someone off with that much health left? 2?

Starting out AD (you could probably start out jungling, too. I think Kha'Zix's jump makes him a pretty good counter jungler if you have enough CD reduction) and then going AP after first or second evolution could be quite viable, as it may leave the enemy in the dark about what you're actually doing.


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Kanderas

Senior Member

09-22-2012

If anyone needs AP scaling on their passive it's Lux, whose bonus damage is unnoticeable later in the game. Even if they had to nerf it's base scaling so she didn't plow people mid game more than she does.

And it'd be nice on Leona's passive too, not that anyone builds AP on her, but there's still the WoA aura.


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Stickers5976

Member

09-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanderas View Post
If anyone needs AP scaling on their passive it's Lux, whose bonus damage is unnoticeable later in the game. Even if they had to nerf it's base scaling so she didn't plow people mid game more than she does.

And it'd be nice on Leona's passive too, not that anyone builds AP on her, but there's still the WoA aura.
As much of a tanky/dps Leona player I am, I do see it kind of being a bit more subtle than a few other champions' passives I've seen.

However, this thread is about Kha'Zix and his viability (And balance) when built with AP items, runes, masteries, etc. and whether or not they make him as a whole, overpowering or broken. :U


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General Quackers

Senior Member

09-22-2012

He has 4x as much AD scaling as he does AP scaling. You'll deal more damage as AD using the same exact strategy.


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JacobStrangelove

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Junior Member

09-27-2012

Just went 10/4/3 following this vs a LeBlanc. It's insanly fun but viable?


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Best HitIer Eu

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Member

09-29-2012

i think 2 important musts for ap kha'zix would be to get lich bane and evolved w so you dont have to be in close range to proc his passive


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Oakshand

Member

10-04-2012

I feel like he would be the opposite of Kennen. Buy AP items early to get as much as you can out of your passive then grab AD and wreck the squishies.


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