Give Xerath's ult an ammo system

First Riot Post
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7 White Dreams

Senior Member

10-04-2012

Would love to see some differences in this champ and seeing him get picked for competition


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Blaine Tog

Senior Member

10-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannamoth View Post
I'm actually quite afraid of moving Xerath's ult to an ammo system. In order to balance out the fact that Xerath can pop you with an ult charge almost whenever he wants, you would need to reduce something it does now, ie range/damage/number of max charges.
Hmm. I suppose you may be right. He could start WERing as his initial combo and then use the rest to follow-up if the R hit, and ER is easier to hit than EQ.

I think his range, damage, and max number of charges would all have to stay for this to not feel like / be a nerf. All those things are what's nice about Xerath.

You could increase the cooldown for each charge, so it's more like 35/30/25 or something. That way, he could still toss out a single charge, but it means he won't have his full burst potential for a reasonable amount of time. If it's just his poke you're worried about, maybe his ult charges deal less damage initially and then more damage if you use them quickly in sequence. Maybe the first charge in a 12 second period has a .4 ratio, the second has a .6, and the third has a .8.

I'm actually ok with his passive being the way it is (it's unsatisfying and doesn't synergy with his kit, but that means the rest of his kit can be better and that's fine), and W is reasonably user-friendly (though it would be nice if he could gain some passive MR/armor while using it, so locking down doesn't make you feel quite so vulnerable). I really wish something could be done to match his E's range with his other spells. Obviously it would have to be nerfed in some way but the most frustrating thing about playing Xerath, outside of being ult-dependent, is that awkward dance where you try to get in range of using your E without being right next to your opponent. Though obviously his E would need to get nerfed to give it more counterplay as a result.


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Lusid

Senior Member

10-04-2012

An ammo system would be better on his ult in my opinion. Right now i love AP kog for the artillery feel, and i like him over Xerath because i can pop one off whenever i please. I don't have to set up with W like xerath, i don't give the telltale that i am about to massive long range poke you, Plus i have the benefit of my other large damage ability being a slow to keep me safe. I also feel in the long run i can pump more damage out than Xerath can. Like the tune of the thread, i feel fairly weak as Xerath when my ult is down. His poke while long range isn't terribly overwhelming, and his only recourse for kill is poke till your ult is up, and if the opponent hasn't backed for health or healed through the poke you nuke them down. Kog on the other hand can riddle you with shots as long as his mana holds up. You could be at full hp but step over the line and he can burn you down with good aim. Xerath on the other hand is more of a poke till you get to a certain point then dump everything i have on your face. At least on the ammo system you have the option of another method of play, or you can save your ammo and blast all three just like now.

I am in favor of more options, and according to Riot on the subject of multiple build characters so are they. Can we have this other option?


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Still Eternity

Senior Member

10-04-2012

Bamp for Archons!


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blobbert

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Senior Member

10-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannamoth View Post
I've been delaying posting in this thread because of time constraints and wanting to make a decent post about it.

My thoughts on an ammo system for Xerath:

I'm actually quite afraid of moving Xerath's ult to an ammo system. In order to balance out the fact that Xerath can pop you with an ult charge almost whenever he wants, you would need to reduce something it does now, ie range/damage/number of max charges.

One thing I do like that the ammo system solves is Xerath feeling like a limp noodle whenever his ult is on cooldown. It would allow you to get an EQR combo off and harass your opponents more than once every 60 seconds (which to be fair is super short).

In regards to giving Xerath more poke via ammo system:

I actually don't think he's deficient at poking right now. Once you get your Q/W leveled up you can rattle off long range poke constantly. I think the usability of his W and passive need to be addressed before his ultimate.

Disclaimer: These are my personal thoughts.
yet you look at corki or akali, other people with ammo ults, corkis suits his style with the long range harass, but once akali hits 6 she can QR-auto-then w or continue to ult for the kill. the damage on xeraths ultimate isnt that much compared to akali and the time for one charge would actually be larger than akali's time to make one charge, this is also without the recharge on kill or assist, giving a siege mage an easier time at using his ultimate.


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Still Eternity

Senior Member

10-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannamoth View Post
I've been delaying posting in this thread because of time constraints and wanting to make a decent post about it.

My thoughts on an ammo system for Xerath:

I'm actually quite afraid of moving Xerath's ult to an ammo system. In order to balance out the fact that Xerath can pop you with an ult charge almost whenever he wants, you would need to reduce something it does now, ie range/damage/number of max charges.

One thing I do like that the ammo system solves is Xerath feeling like a limp noodle whenever his ult is on cooldown. It would allow you to get an EQR combo off and harass your opponents more than once every 60 seconds (which to be fair is super short).

In regards to giving Xerath more poke via ammo system:

I actually don't think he's deficient at poking right now. Once you get your Q/W leveled up you can rattle off long range poke constantly. I think the usability of his W and passive need to be addressed before his ultimate.

Disclaimer: These are my personal thoughts.
Hey, thanks for Posting Dannamoth, it means a lot to us that you've taken the time to say something!

But to be honest, I don't agree with your stance all that much. Xerath as he is right now is only useful after laning phase when he has his Ultimate up: Around every minute. And although the damage he puts out is decent, in the long run over a large teamfight it isn't doing anywhere near the amount of work almost any other AP can do. The Viable Midlanes nowadays have much stronger strengths than Xerath, who's only real strength is his occasional poke and his Post 6 Burst.

If we switch to an Ammo System for Xerath, he now has Poke to play around with over the course of a teamfight or a tower siege like he was originally designed to do, instead of the occasional W-Q poke and then run away.

But the thing is, why should something be taken from him in order to get this change, which would drastically improve his style of play? All he has to offer a team is the occasional long range poke that Nidalee, Kennen, Kog'Maw, Ahri, ect all have, a SINGLE target stun that only works if he hits another spell, and his Ultimate, which is the only thing that makes him remotely useful in any engagement, but only while he still has charges of it. After he blows his load, he's basically useless. Giving him the option to space out his Charges would allow him to poke harder, make him more useful all around.

I am positive that an Ammo System would not come even close to making him Overpowered, and I shall keep bumping this thread until we can get an improvement for poor Xerath.

Thank you once again for coming down here though! I'm so pleased our efforts so far have not been in vain!


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Mynt

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

10-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannamoth View Post
I've been delaying posting in this thread because of time constraints and wanting to make a decent post about it.

My thoughts on an ammo system for Xerath:

I'm actually quite afraid of moving Xerath's ult to an ammo system. In order to balance out the fact that Xerath can pop you with an ult charge almost whenever he wants, you would need to reduce something it does now, ie range/damage/number of max charges.

One thing I do like that the ammo system solves is Xerath feeling like a limp noodle whenever his ult is on cooldown. It would allow you to get an EQR combo off and harass your opponents more than once every 60 seconds (which to be fair is super short).

In regards to giving Xerath more poke via ammo system:

I actually don't think he's deficient at poking right now. Once you get your Q/W leveled up you can rattle off long range poke constantly. I think the usability of his W and passive need to be addressed before his ultimate.

Disclaimer: These are my personal thoughts.
IMO, the scary thing about giving his ultimate a charge system is balancing it around the fact that a Q + Single R can burst away a creep wave at any stage of the game. At least Anivia must stay relatively close the wave while she DPS's it down.

A way to simulate the current ultimate is to have all three charges simultaneously restore after 80/70/60 seconds. So in other words, fully increasing the window to which Xerath gets to use his 3 casts.

A different method that makes it cute would be to still have the charges simultaneously restore on a medium cooldown--say 60/50/40 seconds. But cause successive casts to interrupt and reset the timer. It only restores after 60/50/40 seconds of not using the spell. So in this way the skill can be used to farm or harass... but not indefinitely. And the more time spent doing so proportionally reduces his "power level" for pending engagements.


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Anteka

Senior Member

10-04-2012

Bump!

I like the ammo system for Xerath, since it enables him to be more flexible in terms of harassing in lane. And in terms of gameplay, gives him the ability to "bluff" his lane opponent with a E>R stun. The problem now is that once you ult, your opponent can gauge how much burst you have with a full combo, and are willing to go in if they can tank it. An ammo system will keep that element of suspense in check.

(I know this is on another thread... but have to say it anyway)... His passive does not suit his play style at all, since he is *supposed* to stay long range. Can we change this passive to something more useful? Maybe a stackable debuff buff that lowers MR? Or some kind of chance arcane turbulence that increase damage by X%


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Still Eternity

Senior Member

10-04-2012

Bump!


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Deifixk

Junior Member

10-04-2012

I really like this idea, my main mid is Xerath, and I feel that his current state is underwhelming from the lack of damage without your ult up. My main concern with the ammo system is that there is little your lane opponent can do for counter play when you constantly poke from max range.

What if we could remove the cooldown on both Q and R or just R and have them function by increasing the mana cost of the spells per cast in a short duration up to a cap, like Kogmaw.

OR

What if we got a debuff applied by Q can consumed by R that decreases the cooldown of his R by 5 seconds per enemy champion hit.