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Blitzcrank---Bait Build...your thoughts?

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Thong Bonerstorm

Junior Member

09-29-2010

Quote:
Greatrabe:
I used to play a manamune style Critzcrank, now I'm trying AP style. It should be noted that once lichbane is obtained power fist has a 1:1 AP ratio and if you attack after using another skill they also get an additional 1:1 ratio. If you still want to go AD, crit is the way to go, you can easily smack for over 500 on a powerfist with manamune and a trinity force while maintaining good defense, and if the game goes on long an infinity edge will have you hitting REALLY hard


Power fist actually has a 1:1 AP ratio + normal 2*AD because activating powerfist actually procs lichbane and powerfist itself does 2*AD. In the new patch they put a 3 second cooldown on the proc so now you can only do a single proc within his normal spell combo.

So what used to be:
Grab -(proc)-> attack -> Powerfist -(proc)-> attack -> Ult -(proc) attack

is now:
Grab -(proc)-> attack -> Powerfist -> Ult

Which actually lowers the full DPS output by 2*AD or 2*AP depending on sheen or lichbane.


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Vydelar

Senior Member

09-29-2010

Thong.. that kind of mana comparison is completely ******ed when you have tear set as it's 0 value, and are using end game items in a relation which the massive amount of the frozen heart is armor and a special buff but only +75 mana versus Glacial Shroud.

I could just as easily say Tear, 995/(1350mana/2) = 1.47g but that's just as dumb. You have to look at a full view of things.

Glacial shroud, Sheen, Tear(half charge), Negatron - 45 armor, 20% cdr, 48 mdef, 1525 mana(760 life) and damage proc, for 4605

In getting hp relation, lets take negatron, sheen, cloak and ruby - 45 armor, 0cdr, 48 mdef, damage aura, damage proc, and 630 life for 4985.


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zAPPzAPP

Senior Member

09-30-2010

Quote:
Thong *****storm:
For added measure:
-Giant's Belt
1110g/430hp = 2.58hp/g

-Tear of the Goddess
995g/(350mana/2) = 5.68hp/g

-Frozen Heart
2775g/(500mana/2) = 5.55hp/g

And this is assume best case scenario where you have full mana, which you wouldn't because you would have used some ability to attack. The ratios get even larger with each percent of mana you lose.


Wow... sorry but you REALLY fail at math here.
You use half of your mana to gain hp, not double it. Also the way you do it, it's actually g/hp, not hp/g. So a lower number would be better in your example.

...so, the actual calculation (used your numbers, didnt bother to check):
-Giant's Belt
430hp/1110g = 0.39hp/g


-Tear of the Goddess
(350mana/2)/950g= 0.18hp/g


-Tear of the Goddess (charged)
(1000mana/2)/950g= 0.53hp/g

-Frozen Heart
(500mana/2)/2775g = 0.09hp/g

Still the conclusion stands correct (however you got it from those numbers of yours...).
A fully charged tear is only a little bit better than a giants belt in terms of hp. Still the belt does not go on CD.
The tear is actually a pretty good item if you want to build manamune anyways, but other than that, the belt builds into better items.
Also keep in mind all those numbers only work if you are on full mana, which is unlikely if you do anything else than running around and autoattack.


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Vydelar

Senior Member

09-30-2010

No, the math is still wrong zappzapp because you aren't subtracting all the other items from the equation. A good example that is completely screwed up is putting Frozen Heart up there as an example. That's spending a good 1400 EXTRA gold on pure armor, cdr, and the aoe aspd reduction, where it gets 75 extra mana over glacial shroud. Sure, later you'll buy it, but you aren't buying it for the extra mana boost, you are buying it for the armor.

You also messed up Tear, since full charge is 1350, not 1000 as you put.

If you want a better example, compare glacial shroud with sunfire or something like that, Glacial will give less hp, true, but 425/2=212 potential, versus the 450 from sunfire, ignoring the difference between sunfire's aura and 20% cdr (where my subjective opinion states for blitz the cdr is better) but there is also cost. The difference between them is 835g. So given all other things being equal, I will be further along in my item build because hp is expensive compared to mana.

You naysayers also underestimate the mana regen that your design is lacking. I usually begin a teamfight at 80-90% mana without any issues because the mana cost overall for blitz's abilities per SECOND aren't that high. Given 30% cdr, In 28 seconds, you'll be able to use Static field once, Rocket Punch 2-3 times, Overdrive 2 times, with it being ready at the same time static field is, and Power fist 8 times. This is given ultimate ideal notes where everything is blown/used immediately. All together, that's 810 or 950 mana.

More realistically, I'd see overdrive being used once, power fist 4-6 times, rocket punch 1-2 times to engage, and one static field (480-670 mana). So reduce Mana Barrier from 240 to 475 hp, before adding in mana regen. My regen runes, the mimimum 7mp5 melki and masteries bring my level 18 up to 30.9 mp/5, adding 173 mana(86 hp) over 28 seconds. This goes up to 48.9mp5 if i go archangel over manamune (which i sometimes do), being 273 mana over the 28 seconds (136 hp). Point's moot if Blitz gets golem (which you probably won't honestly, because you won't need it.)


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CrimsonWolf69

Junior Member

10-02-2010

Well I tried out a few other styles. It seems my original build functions best overall, at least for my playstyle.

Please note that I use Boots of Swiftness for all my Blitzcrank builds, but against a lot of disable I could justify Mercury Treads.

The tried an AP build using Lichbane, Rod of Ages, Archangel's Staff, Banshees Veil, and Innervating Locket. It keeps you tough and has a bonus damage emphasis on AP via Powerfist, but I found it to be less damage then what a Manamune does for you, especially if you crit. You still retain the same amount of mana, but lack the CDR to spam your abilities as much as you want to, with all that mana. Also note that I tried a pure AP/spell penetration build, but this leaves you a very squishy target, and only 2 abilities with long CDs use that AP.

I also tried focusing on AD. I tried to snag some CDR, Armor Penetration, and crit. My choice items were Innervating Locket, Infinity Edge, Trinity Force, Youmuu's Ghostblade, and Black Cleaver. Damage output was extremely high, especially in conjunction with Powerfist, but as much as he kicked ass, Blitzcrank will just never be Master Yi. In this build he was also noticably weaker and/or easier to kill. Against a real carry, you will almost certainly lose, but oddly enough, in equal numbered fights you seem to do better.

My conclusion until further notice is that Blitzcrank is a multipurpose champion who does everything well but nothing amazingly. He can tank, but not as good as real tanks like Olaf or Gragas. He can deal nice damage, but not as well as a carry/assassin/caster. Where he shines is in group battles where he can grab and disable one target, or nuke/silence all of them. While all of his skills have a situational use, his Rocket Grab is his most useful skill. A good Rocket Grab can determine the outcome of a game, simply by turning a 5v5 into a 5v4 and counter-pushing, ruining a push on your base, or breaking their defense as you grab one of them through their base's wall. If you can master Rocket Grab, you will play a good Blitzcrank. This is by far his hardest skill to master, but if you can learn to land some tricky grabs, your team will love you. Remember you can grab through walls and terrain. I have pulled people from their tower, as they were teleporting away to go heal.

If anyone has questions, feel free to ask.

Just an after thought; has anyone ever tried using both Manamune AND Archangel's staff? Would you get 2 sets of 1000 bonus mana?


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Shamanb

Senior Member

10-02-2010

Quote:
Sykomyke:
So I've been thinking of a decent build. I tried it out the other night. I find that I was a bit squishier then I would have liked.

Normally I build Catalyst/Sheen on him first and then build into either RoA or BV+Trinity Force later on.

However I decided with the rather new-ish item of manamune I would try a build that synergizes with his passive.

Manamune, Sheen, Frozen Heart.

Essentially a mana-centric build that provide him with nearly full mana all game, provides him with a decent shield when he gets low on health making him good bait that can still survive. And then add on the extra damage from manamune to make his sheen proc'd hits REALLY hurt.

My only grip with this is that I have to build manamune first, get boots second, then get sheen which puts me at around level 9 before I'm really doing any big damage. And the build is highly squishy. I found myself getting nuked down very badly, and in some cases some nukes bypassing my shield entirely.

I think the build could use a bit more HP to be useful. Blitz is one of the least item dependant champions so I'm thinking maybe hold off on the sheen and get a randuins omen instead and get the sheen later? It will hurt his damage but improve survivability.


You wanna survive burst ? Banshee's what you want, not more armor, you already have frozen heart in your build.


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Shamanb

Senior Member

10-02-2010

Quote:
CrimsonWolf69:
Well I tried out a few other styles. It seems my original build functions best overall, at least for my playstyle.

Please note that I use Boots of Swiftness for all my Blitzcrank builds, but against a lot of disable I could justify Mercury Treads.

The tried an AP build using Lichbane, Rod of Ages, Archangel's Staff, Banshees Veil, and Innervating Locket. It keeps you tough and has a bonus damage emphasis on AP via Powerfist, but I found it to be less damage then what a Manamune does for you, especially if you crit. You still retain the same amount of mana, but lack the CDR to spam your abilities as much as you want to, with all that mana. Also note that I tried a pure AP/spell penetration build, but this leaves you a very squishy target, and only 2 abilities with long CDs use that AP.

I also tried focusing on AD. I tried to snag some CDR, Armor Penetration, and crit. My choice items were Innervating Locket, Infinity Edge, Trinity Force, Youmuu's Ghostblade, and Black Cleaver. Damage output was extremely high, especially in conjunction with Powerfist, but as much as he kicked ass, Blitzcrank will just never be Master Yi. In this build he was also noticably weaker and/or easier to kill. Against a real carry, you will almost certainly lose, but oddly enough, in equal numbered fights you seem to do better.

My conclusion until further notice is that Blitzcrank is a multipurpose champion who does everything well but nothing amazingly. He can tank, but not as good as real tanks like Olaf or Gragas. He can deal nice damage, but not as well as a carry/assassin/caster. Where he shines is in group battles where he can grab and disable one target, or nuke/silence all of them. While all of his skills have a situational use, his Rocket Grab is his most useful skill. A good Rocket Grab can determine the outcome of a game, simply by turning a 5v5 into a 5v4 and counter-pushing, ruining a push on your base, or breaking their defense as you grab one of them through their base's wall. If you can master Rocket Grab, you will play a good Blitzcrank. This is by far his hardest skill to master, but if you can learn to land some tricky grabs, your team will love you. Remember you can grab through walls and terrain. I have pulled people from their tower, as they were teleporting away to go heal.

If anyone has questions, feel free to ask.

Just an after thought; has anyone ever tried using both Manamune AND Archangel's staff? Would you get 2 sets of 1000 bonus mana?


Yes it will give a total of 2000 bonus mana, which you will never reach of course. Boots + Sheen + Manamune + Frozen heart = 7k gold ... Archangel puts you at 10k gold, which means 35 minutes min to get to it if your game goes VERY VERY well. You will never stack that archangel.

Btw, Olaf is not a tank ... even built tank, Olaf is only an off-tank, he cannot initiate. Which is the promary job of a tank. Well that and keeping ppl off your carry, which he can also NOT do.

Blitz as a crazy strong spell, rocket-grab. That's it though, nothing else.


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CrimsonWolf69

Junior Member

10-03-2010

I disagree with Shamanb in that Rocket Grab is Blitzcrank's only "crazy strong" skill. Power Fist is great disable, especially for chasing, or preventing an enemy from chasing an ally, or escaping yourself. On a 3-4 second cooldown, thats really often. Overdrive, to me, is more for it's movement speed, but when needed it can be used to plow someone down a few more hit points, but I will grant that it is a negligible skill at best. His ult is a nearly screen-wide aoe nuke(with quite decent damage) with a silence attached, and has a very short cooldown. This is both good for farming creeps, screwing up enemy skill rotations, interrupting channels, or causing chaos and panic in general. As if that didn't get better, it has a passive constant single-target nuke when it's off cooldown. Rocket Grab is definitely Blitzcrank's key trick since it can apply to a team effort, but it's certainly not his only useful skill.

I think they should increase the attack speed and movement speed bonuses on Overdrive, as well as make the Underdrive negative bonuses worse for you. This would balance the change, and make Overdrive more situationally better. It could be the difference between catching up with someone, or getting away from a gank.


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