Introducing Honor!

First Riot Post
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SavageMinnow

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Senior Member

09-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by CupcakeTrap View Post
I disagree.

Let's say the person was a bit abrasive, a bit short-tempered, but not quite Punish-level toxic? I might want to say "well, no ban, but ... this person is definitely not "Honorable".
If someone's doing something wrong, you vote punish. The system will handle the severity of the punishment, that's not your job to decide. It doesn't matter if it's only a little wrong, it's still wrong.


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Dr Kipp

Senior Member

09-20-2012

What I really like about it is it might encourage players who don't rage but don't talk either because there's no incentive to, and for alot of people, I feel like the possibility of turning a player thats not doing so hot into a valuable contribution that allows the team to win isn't worth the risk of being *****ed out for "whatever." This system could change that, we'll see.


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CupcakeTrap

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Senior Member

09-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SavageMinnow View Post
If someone's doing something wrong, you vote punish. The system will handle the severity of the punishment, that's not your job to decide. It doesn't matter if it's only a little wrong, it's still wrong.
I'm a very strict Tribunaler, and I suspect you are, too. That's good. I wish there were more like you.

That said, there are a lot of people who Pardon unless the behavior is really pretty bad. For whatever reason, many Tribunalers are not willing to click Punish for a couple "omg noob ez"-style comments. But they might be willing to dock Honor. I say we harness that to punish jerks.


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A blind ol coot

Junior Member

09-20-2012

I like this. Always a way to punish a player but never a way to give recognition.


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SavageMinnow

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Senior Member

09-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by CupcakeTrap View Post
I'm a very strict Tribunaler, and I suspect you are, too. That's good. I wish there were more like you.

That said, there are a lot of people who Pardon unless the behavior is really pretty bad. For whatever reason, many Tribunalers are not willing to click Punish for a couple "omg noob ez"-style comments. But they might be willing to dock Honor. I say we harness that to punish jerks.
I'm more in favor of making these fact more well-known. In the end, even if I disagree with people, the Tribunal is there to help gauge how the community views behavior. If people think it's not worth punishing, that's just how it is.

I suspect honor will have its own built-in system to dock points on players who deserve them docked, and punishments in Tribunal will very likely do that as well. While I understand your idea (I've posted before saying I would have liked the punish button split into "Punish - Major" and "Punish - Minor,") I think it ends up clouding the overall goal of Tribunal to have those extra options.

For now, there needs to be some education on what isn't acceptable. People think it's perfectly fine to be homophobic, xenophobic, sexist, and racist as long as it's not directed at themselves. It's a real problem; take a look at the thread that was on the front page of GD about homophobic slurs being common. A simple request to stop that, and to punish those who do it, received mass downvotes. There are threads all the time about foreigners "ruining the game with their stupidity," and they receive mass upvotes. Something has to happen to fix this attitude before the problem can be effectively tackled.


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YoshioPeePee

Senior Member

09-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by CupcakeTrap View Post
I disagree.

Let's say the person was a bit abrasive, a bit short-tempered, but not quite Punish-level toxic? I might want to say "well, no ban, but ... this person is definitely not "Honorable".
this only makes good sense if the honor he had been given were from the games the tribunal happened to pick out for review

you can't put it upon yourself to take away the honor other players had given this player for games that for all you know may very well have measured up to your standards of what deserves honor

if you think the player acted in a toxic manner in the games you are reviewing which causes you to believe he may not have deserved the honor he had been given than you should probably strongly consider a punish vote

pardons are for players who were not toxic, if a player is pardoned the tribunal has basicaly completely ignored the reports for those games

why should we judge the honor status of a player who appears to be "acceptable and ok based on the standards of our game but not good enough to deserve honor" based on games that were not reported correctly?

a pardon vote is for a player who absolutely is not toxic based on the evidence provided, its not fair to judge players based on games that you just decided they never should have been reported for

edit: about your idea to have it as a strategic measure to insure jerks who are pardoned by voters who feel that they are to vote pardon on people who are "moderately toxic" or "just a bit toxic" i like it in a purely practical sense but i do not want riot encouraging what is essentially incorrect voting by giving these voters that option


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Amythist

Senior Member

09-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TempusVen View Post
Someone mentioned that they used Xbox's Rep system only on their friends, and while this was not the point of their post, it brings up something that worries me: What's to stop groups from banding together and "upvote spamming" each other, like in similar systems on Youtube, etc? Will there be a cohesive system monitoring for this, and how will it distinguish between a genuinely Honorable player and someone with friends willing to abuse the system?

I'm going to assume that there will be an automatic system in place similar to the Tribunal where people who repeatedly make false reports have their reports valued lower and lower, probably giving less and less honor as player A repeatedly reports player B as a good influence over many games while not reporting others.

other possibility is that people that queue together will have their good influence reports be valued slightly lower because of the group queue


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boowhohoo

Member

09-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
The system assumes some players will award Honor for skilled play, but players should be awarding Honor for positive behavior.

This has failure written all over it. No reward in the positive reinforcement will surely entice players to act honorably... Your so called "Psychologist" didn't think this through...


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Nizu

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Senior Member

09-20-2012

I'm really looking forward to this, I've wanted something like this for a long time.

GJ Lyte and PB&J for getting this made.

It may make support a little more frustrating though, hah.

-Play support
-Save ADC all lane
-Keep wards up all game
-Time to start pressuring baron
-Ward around baron area and river
-Jungler goes bottom to farm, gets ganked and killed
-"WTF no wards?"
-"Why do we have no wards?"

C'est la vie

Course on the other hand I probably get told I'm a good support by every other ADC these days (typically as we lose the lane cause they can't last hit very well, but it's the thought that counts).


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CupcakeTrap

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Senior Member

09-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SavageMinnow View Post
I'm more in favor of making these fact more well-known. In the end, even if I disagree with people, the Tribunal is there to help gauge how the community views behavior. If people think it's not worth punishing, that's just how it is.

I suspect honor will have its own built-in system to dock points on players who deserve them docked, and punishments in Tribunal will very likely do that as well. While I understand your idea (I've posted before saying I would have liked the punish button split into "Punish - Major" and "Punish - Minor,") I think it ends up clouding the overall goal of Tribunal to have those extra options.

For now, there needs to be some education on what isn't acceptable. People think it's perfectly fine to be homophobic, xenophobic, sexist, and racist as long as it's not directed at themselves. It's a real problem; take a look at the thread that was on the front page of GD about homophobic slurs being common. A simple request to stop that, and to punish those who do it, received mass downvotes. There are threads all the time about foreigners "ruining the game with their stupidity," and they receive mass upvotes. Something has to happen to fix this attitude before the problem can be effectively tackled.
I agree with pretty much everything you say. Fair enough; I'm persuaded.