Welcome to the Forum Archive!

Years of conversation fill a ton of digital pages, and we've kept all of it accessible to browse or copy over. Whether you're looking for reveal articles for older champions, or the first time that Rammus rolled into an "OK" thread, or anything in between, you can find it here. When you're finished, check out the boards to join in the latest League of Legends discussions.

GO TO BOARDS


Introducing Honor!

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Tutskii

Senior Member

09-30-2012

Quote:
Lyte:
We did consider this very early in the design; however, it is a huge disadvantage for players that play in smaller matchmaking pools. For example, if you are low or high Elo, you do tend to see the same players again and one Honor per player didn't make sense in that context. In international territories where the total playerbase might be a bit smaller, it also didn't make sense to only allow you to Honor someone once.

It also hinders the potential future of the system. We are working on a lot of additions to Honor and a few of the additions would be hindered if you could only Honor a player once.


I saw Honor in the PBE.

I think its a great system, and rather like it. Good job guys.

Even with no real rewards, getting honored was pretty awesome, and honoring others was cool too.

Long overdue imho.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Rewdas

Senior Member

09-30-2012

Who wants to see how much Crendor gets on launch?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Master Shue

Junior Member

10-01-2012

Hey Lyte,

I've read through all your 99 post, and am very excited about this. BUT I've got a serious question that hasnt been answer yet (or at least havent seen you answered this).

When a player recieves the honorable status, will s/he be more likely to be que'd up with other honorable players? Or will honorable players still have to deal with the toxic players and lose their honor points? Because these days there seems to be a toxic player in every game, and it's growing by the day. When there's a toxic player, there is a very low chance that people will even consider to distribute the honor points. These toxic players have an infection rate of over 9000, and I don't see how the honor point is going to be viable, given that a toxic player can infect the whole team.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Fredgerd

Senior Member

10-01-2012

If I have a team full of nerd ragey types who are all fighting and blaming eachother and we stand to lose as a result of poor team communication and morale rather than being outplayed strategically, would it be flagged as abuse for me to bribe my team with honor under the condition that they improve their behavior and work together or would this just be an inventive use of the system?

Sorry for the long sentence. I read to many translations of stuff originally written in academic German :/


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Celebi

Recruiter

10-01-2012

Hey Lyte, I have a question that's more about the "look" of the honor system rather than its mechanics.

Will you guys be replacing that stupid teemo face for something else? Because that smiley face takes the epic out of the summoner profile...

There was a leaked video from animations on the PBE about the 4 new honor categories, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_pdpAyQJHc&feature=player_embedded).

I can see there's already the book, the twin swords, and oddly, a group of swords with a Teemo face. Replace the teemo face with the Horn? And the group of swords with the Locked Handshake?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

YoshioPeePee

Senior Member

10-01-2012

Quote:
Celebi:
Hey Lyte, I have a question that's more about the "look" of the honor system rather than its mechanics.

Will you guys be replacing that stupid teemo face for something else? Because that smiley face takes the epic out of the summoner profile...

There was a leaked video from animations on the PBE about the 4 new honor categories, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_pdpAyQJHc&feature=player_embedded).

I can see there's already the book, the twin swords, and oddly, a group of swords with a Teemo face. Replace the teemo face with the Horn? And the group of swords with the Locked Handshake?


teemo's face will add much more incentive for me to be honorable than any other thing possibly could


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

KSHarrison

Senior Member

10-01-2012

Well, I just got through all 99 red posts, and I have to say that I am very excited to see Riot answering a lot of people's requests for a system that reinforces positive contributions to the game. My impression of the system so far is that

a) a lot of data has been collected, to which many simulations have been tried
b) it appears to be quite complex, or at least very detailed, in its implementation, which is not unexpected given the myriad of situations it needs to account for
c) I still have very little idea of how it actually works!

I have a lot of faith in Riot's ability to successfully make innovative, groundbreaking changes in the MOBA genre. There's a lot of precedent for this in the past, so I see no reason why this would be an exception. In short, you guys rock!

But I would like to ask a little more of how it works, at your discretion of how much can be said.

Quote:
1) Are the benefits of honor points capped at some point? I assume the system designates honorable players according to "milestone achievemnts" eg. 10%, 20%, 30% chance of being honored per game. Is this capped at some point, or would you continue to see benefits all the way up to players who are, say, 90% chance of being honored per game?

The reason I ask this is because in low population elos/regions, there could be a very small population that continually sees each other (as you have mentioned), that might be less inclined to "honor" each other either because they see each other very often, or perhaps they are afraid of ruining their "honor reputation" by continually voting for the same people. Continual abuse of the latter case would initiate the system's anti-abuse response.

The consequence of this pattern is that the value of an honor point is not consistent among all groups of players. This might be seen as an acceptable sacrifice, but I only thought that if the bonus were capped at some point, then even lowest elo players can feel good about themselves, rather than feeling frustrated and confused that their good behavior isn't rewarded as much as someone in a more populated bracket. It also allows players in a low populated region to feel like they are interacting with the system just as much as someone from NA or EU.

Quote:
2) By allowing you to "honor" someone every game, are you afraid of the honor point losing value due to its ubiquity?


For example

Scenario:Unbeknownst to both teams at the start of the game, blue team has picked a team with better synergy and champions with which their players are more skilled than purple team has. In our omniscient point of view, blue team is already fated to win. At this point, any positive behavior from blue team is, most likely, less valuable than positive behavior that comes from purple team.

With unlimited honor votes, I would bet my money that over a period of 100 games with this scenario, a very strong trend would be shown whereby blue team players consistently receive more honor points than purple team. This is because players have incentive to dole out honor points regularly, and a winning team will have more positive players, plus players with high scores, that are prime targets of being "honored."

On the other hand, if there were fewer chances to honor a player, say a limited number per set of games, a player might be more inclined to save his honor votes for cases where a player truly was very nice and outstanding.

This has the advantage of perhaps achieving a more accurate voting system, since a player that is winning is on the average better behaved than a player that is losing. However, most games have one or more high score players, or one or more players that are "good" because they are winning. This good behavior is superficial and therefore trivial. A restricted supply of honor points is not trivial, so you do not use it for these cases; you use it for more extraordinary circumstances. A less controlled supply of honor points makes each honor point more trivial, so you are more likely to use them for trivial circumstances.

Granted in my scenario there are also some examples of cross-team voting, but I would expect it to occur less often and go mostly equally in both directions, so I just left this type of honor voting out of the equation for the sake of simplicity.

The crux of my argument depends on whether or not it is important for people to be rewarded for the right reasons. I just assumed this would be true. Having honor points available to use very often will promote players being rewarded for the wrong reasons.

Quote:
3) How do you account for players whose voting pattern doesn't align with what you define is appropriate voting?


I understand you have a system in place that searches out trolls who use their voting too often or wrongly. I assumed, though, that there is a lot of grey area; specifically, a player who gives out honor often but does not intend to be a troll is not punished for doing so. I can imagine a lot of confusion on the player's part if he is losing honor or credibility with his votes because he is using them too often for the wrong reasons - wrong being somewhat subjectively determined by your system -, even though in his mind all of his votes are justified. If you gave him 3 votes per 5-10 games, then one would hope he would save his votes for more outstanding displays of good behavior, upon which both he and the system are likely to agree, and be less likely to transgress into poor voting patterns. This leaves him feeling less frustrated and alleviates some of the pressure on your system for needing to maintain tight control on the fine line between good voting patterns and abusive voting patterns.

Quote:
4) You said in one of your posts that honor granted for skilled play should equal itself out among all players - because everyone carries a game every now and then - so these skill-related votes are not a factor. I disagree with this.


There are a lot of players who do not know how to play aggressively, and knowing how to play aggressively is key to achieving a high score and carrying. However, for a majority of elo levels, you can still be successful and not know how to play aggressively, in that you do everything else right. Some players are carry players; some aren't. The ones who aren't carry players are going to be biased against in a system where honor votes are trivial enough to be worth using on players with high scores.

Not only that, but some roles don't get high scores as often, such as support.

Anyways, sorry if it seems like I am prowling for a fault in the honor system. On the whole it seems excellent, and the good more than outweighs the bad. I'm only here to inform myself, and it's only because I am interested in what you have done that I am taking the time to ask questions. I am sure you have thought through these things, and I would just like to hear your thoughts on them. Thanks for your time and answers to any of my points! I'm looking forward to a great system!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Just a forum acc

Senior Member

10-01-2012

Give us 100th post Lyte Put Honor into matchmaking(mentioned before)! Is it ever gonna happen?


Also, YES ETAs. I love ETAs and planning time. This way, you can release it in s4, and no one can blame you pls give it a life before s3


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Majigger

Senior Member

10-01-2012

If Lyte is behind all of these awesome community ideas lately, give this Rioter a raise! Seriously, 10+years of forum browsing in varied communities (MMO's, MOBA's, RTS, FPS), and i've never seen a more composed and effectively concise employee. Props man, you're doing a great job.

Also digging the honor idea!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

IncendiarySpade

Senior Member

10-01-2012

I've played a LOT of games. And i can think of only 1 that i would have been "honorified". One where bot was fighting eachother instead of the enemy so i broke it up and told the support to come mid with me, then proceeded to carry while keeping everyone of everyone elses throats. Im usually pretty positive in my games both recordwise and teamwise, and i don't think i've seen many people really "earn" an Honor. What would someone do that should be rewarded. I just feel that the tribunal and this are way too general so people cant abuse them, but it leads to too much confusion so i would prefer a more open policy