Introducing Honor!

First Riot Post
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Abandon Mae

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Senior Member

09-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
We're not talking about rewards at this time. Consider the Honor Initiative as a multi-phase effort, with Phase 1 being to just test the system and determine whether it is accurately identifying positive players.

It's a very large-scale, unpredictable experiment, so we have to take things one step at a time. The whole purpose of this experiment is to try to find the players who are legitimately being Honorable, regardless of any tangible rewards. Once we identify those players, who knows what may happen?
Thanks for replying. Also, may I say I like the way you do things Dr. Lyte.


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doctorricardo

Senior Member

09-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
There's a lot of research that your vote of Honor towards your own friends means less. To give a more extreme example, what's worth more?

1) Your parents saying you are the best in the world at LOL
2) Your peers saying you are the best in the world at LOL
3) Random strangers on the street saying you are the best in the world at LOL

All of those are worth the same i.e. nothing.

parents have no idea what LoL is

peers are unfit to judge because they're around the same skill. Even if I'm the best in the group, they're not saying anything that's founded on fact

Random strangers are exactly that. Anybody can be anybody else on the internet, so how do I know how qualified they are to make that judgement?


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CupcakeTrap

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Senior Member

09-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
Honestly, we don't do a very good job of teaching new players a lot of things. For example, we need to do a better job teaching players about the tools that are available to fight off toxic players. We don't have anything special planned for the Honor Initiative and I feel bad that we're adding to the problem; however, we're going to try to make the Honor Initiative very visible for a period of time so that almost all players will at least see some material about the system and how it works.
I'm reminded of this thing I wrote up in a different thread a while ago:



POP-UP MESSAGE BEFORE FIRST MATCHMADE GAMES
Suggested by The Blue Jelly.

I've written up an example:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CupcakeTrap View Post
Greetings, Summoner!

You are about to begin your first matchmade player-versus-player games. Our Matchmaker system will attempt to place you at an appropriate skill level. However, the system needs data (matches) to do so.

Because it is difficult to distinguish new players from experienced players with new accounts, you will likely end up facing experienced players starting new accounts, or "Smurfs". Don't be discouraged! Just have fun and do your best. Unfortunately, we can't tell which of you are new players and which of you are experienced players with new accounts until you start playing.

If anyone gives you a hard time, please use our (anonymous) Report function to let us know so we can discipline them. Click the red exclamation mark button next to their name in the post-game lobby.

And if you are an experienced player creating a "Smurf" account, please be courteous to new players. Offer advice, but don't scorn their lack of experience. You were new once!

I REALLY think it would be a good idea to have some splash-screen stuff for new players, to make it clear that Riot is "on their side". Otherwise, they just see a bunch of jerks raging at them and believe the LoL world is run by these types.

Likewise, I really think the mute feature needs to be improved and highlighted. I seem to recall you saying that PB&J was planning to take ownership of this feature from the UI team.

In short:
  • Mute should be "advertised" to the player, and easily accessible
  • Mute should allow pings to go through, so that ignoring everyone (in extremely toxic games) doesn't inhibit your ability to get crucial info via pings
  • Honestly, I think a mia ping system would be nice as well. Again, you should be able to turn off the toxic stream of rage without totally blanking out useful tactical info.
  • Perhaps have an always-available pre-set list of communication messages? e.g. "Go Baron now", "Mia", "Re", "Go Dragon", "Push Top", "Push mid", "Push bot".


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Johnnie5DubV

Senior Member

09-30-2012

Ok lets say a guy has 50 honor votes from just friends and another guys has 50 and only 10 are from friends obviously the guy who has only 10 from friends is more honorable... it is much more honorable to help someone you don't know and may never meet again than to help a friend you already know... You were probably gonna help those friends anyway. Also many people overlook flaws in their friends... there have been many games where someone was raging at some poor noob and when i said if they didnt stop they might get reported for such behavior their friend that they were duo queuing with of course jumps into chat saying if you report him i'll report you... so in no way can you argue that friend honor should be equal to non friend... but in the same vein when a friend reports a friend for bad behavior i do think that should count for more because a friend is much less likely to do so unless the reportee was doing something SUPER wrong to get his friend to report him. Although i do think a thing like report accuracy should be given to those who give honor to the right people over and over again i can see how this would be hard to do when in one game someone can act honorable and the next be totally toxic.


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Zerglinator

Senior Member

09-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
There's a lot of research that your vote of Honor towards your own friends means less. To give a more extreme example, what's worth more?

1) Your parents saying you are the best in the world at LOL
2) Your peers saying you are the best in the world at LOL
3) Random strangers on the street saying you are the best in the world at LOL
I choose
4) Lyte saying you are the best in the world at LOL, backed up by statistics.


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Panzerfaust

Emissary of the League

09-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnie5DubV View Post
Ok lets say a guy has 50 honor votes from just friends and another guys has 50 and only 10 are from friends obviously the guy who has only 10 from friends is more honorable... it is much more honorable to help someone you don't know and may never meet again than to help a friend you already know... You were probably gonna help those friends anyway. Also many people overlook flaws in their friends... there have been many games where someone was raging at some poor noob and when i said if they didnt stop they might get reported for such behavior their friend that they were duo queuing with of course jumps into chat saying if you report him i'll report you... so in no way can you argue that friend honor should be equal to non friend... but in the same vein when a friend reports a friend for bad behavior i do think that should count for more because a friend is much less likely to do so unless the reportee was doing something SUPER wrong to get his friend to report him. Although i do think a thing like report accuracy should be given to those who give honor to the right people over and over again i can see how this would be hard to do when in one game someone can act honorable and the next be totally toxic.
The only real issue I see with 'honor accuracy' is that you're honoring for specific games; you're not saying they're necessarily a great person every game. Of course I defer to Lyte in all matters human/robot behavior and statistical analysis related...


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Pika Fox

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Senior Member

09-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
Should your Honor 'vote' towards your own friends be just as important as one from a stranger?
While its true you may be biased because theyre your friend, theyre your friend for a reason. You should be allowed one vote for your friends honor wise, since theyre basically like any other player, and for all we know they met in LoL and liked playing with each other enough that they added each other, which kinda holds the same purpose as the honor system (someone you enjoyed actually playing with, for the most part). Beyond that, you obviously shouldnt be allowed to vote numerous times for a friend.


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Trefyr

Member

09-30-2012

One vote per person seems pretty straight forward no?


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ratcharmer

Senior Member

09-30-2012

First off-- awesome work, I think this is a great idea.

Secondly, you mentioned a few times that sad things would happen if I were to honor everyone in every game I played. What if I were to award honor to almost everyone I played with--basically I will honor the people I play with unless they do something significant to make a jerk out of themselves. Is that ok?

What if I kept this practice up when I was in a premade (therefore repeatedly honoring my friends, but honoring almost everyone else as well)?


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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

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09-30-2012
99 of 99 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trefyr View Post
One vote per person seems pretty straight forward no?
We did consider this very early in the design; however, it is a huge disadvantage for players that play in smaller matchmaking pools. For example, if you are low or high Elo, you do tend to see the same players again and one Honor per player didn't make sense in that context. In international territories where the total playerbase might be a bit smaller, it also didn't make sense to only allow you to Honor someone once.

It also hinders the potential future of the system. We are working on a lot of additions to Honor and a few of the additions would be hindered if you could only Honor a player once.