Introducing Honor!

First Riot Post
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Echorion

Senior Member

09-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
We'll be making an effort to identify pillars of the community.

No ETAs! We'll be revealing more details about the Honor Initiative and start some new discussions around it sometime this week.
Thank you for being honest.

Dodgyness is what is frustrating :P


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SoloDragoon

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Senior Member

09-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
The end-goal of the Honor Initiative is to encourage players to aspire to be more positive. It's to encourage players who otherwise might be neutral or slightly toxic to instead be positive and to reinforce their behavior when they do act more positive. It's to encourage strangers to shed anonymity and aspire to be more respectful to one another.

If you premade 90% of your games with your friends and most of your games are non-toxic because your teammates are all friends... then you are not the main audience of the Honor Initiative. However, we have taken extra measures to ensure that there are still ways to progress and receive Honor if you play 90% premades. In fact, even though you mainly premade, you can still participate in every aspect of the Honor Initiative.

Not every system or initiative has to be designed equally for every type of player in the whole world.
While I understand the "end-goal" - I still fail to understand why receiving honor from a friend again ether deserved or not is less valuable if say they have given you honor a couple of times. (i say couple, cause I think thats reasonable say every couple days, obviously more then one or two can become a bit abusive). I would also just briefly like to touch on, my games can still be toxic because I play with friends. There are still 5x other players in the game. Or I could be doing a due, three, or four pre-made, it doesn't have to assume a full five.

While the goal may be to promote good overall quality experience for players(in a anon atmosphere) and receive a possible reward for that action of being honorable this system shouldbe treated equally - for pre-mades.

Who has the right as a player, or employee to tell me or my friends who or who not I think is toxic, or honorable(in the sense of - my vote should have full merit not matter the reason)? While various and obvious circumstances, show obvious outcomes on a socially acceptable level for toxicity, that line is equally as important for the level of Honor.

I love the idea of the system - I love the tribunal - But I feel like as a player, and individual I feel like because I play with friends my "honor" vote towards them isn't important because I know them, because I voted for them a few games ago.


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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

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09-30-2012
96 of 99 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peach Goddess View Post
@Lyte:

How will you introduce new players into the honor system? Because for the past few weeks I have been using this account, Peach Goddess, to observe players that seem new or like smurfs. Out of the 9 blind pick games I had, 4 people did not know how to buy items, 2 people did not know how to use spells, about 5 people were slightly experienced but they still had bad mechanics, and everyone else was a smurf that would bark at these poor players to do things they had no idea how to do (i.e. leash blue, or initiate a gank,). I had to teach the new players at the end of the game how to report these nasty smurfs so that the newbies could have a better experience while playing. After telling these people all that during and after a game, how will you inform the new community on how to add honor? Will it be a simple popup? Or something else?

**added a pic of my recent game as a smurf.
Honestly, we don't do a very good job of teaching new players a lot of things. For example, we need to do a better job teaching players about the tools that are available to fight off toxic players. We don't have anything special planned for the Honor Initiative and I feel bad that we're adding to the problem; however, we're going to try to make the Honor Initiative very visible for a period of time so that almost all players will at least see some material about the system and how it works.


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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

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09-30-2012
97 of 99 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloDragoon View Post
While I understand the "end-goal" - I still fail to understand why receiving honor from a friend again ether deserved or not is less valuable if say they have given you honor a couple of times. (i say couple, cause I think thats reasonable say every couple days, obviously more then one or two can become a bit abusive). I would also just briefly like to touch on, my games can still be toxic because I play with friends. There are still 5x other players in the game. Or I could be doing a due, three, or four pre-made, it doesn't have to assume a full five.

While the goal may be to promote good overall quality experience for players(in a anon atmosphere) and receive a possible reward for that action of being honorable this system shouldbe treated equally - for pre-mades.

Who has the right as a player, or employee to tell me or my friends who or who not I think is toxic, or honorable(in the sense of - my vote should have full merit not matter the reason)? While various and obvious circumstances, show obvious outcomes on a socially acceptable level for toxicity, that line is equally as important for the level of Honor.

I love the idea of the system - I love the tribunal - But I feel like as a player, and individual I feel like because I play with friends my "honor" vote towards them isn't important because I know them, because I voted for them a few games ago.
Should your Honor 'vote' towards your own friends be just as important as one from a stranger?


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SoloDragoon

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Senior Member

09-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
Should your Honor 'vote' towards your own friends be just as important as one from a stranger?
Yes.

And why shouldn't it?


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Lyte

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09-30-2012
98 of 99 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloDragoon View Post
Yes.

And why shouldn't it?
There's a lot of research that your vote of Honor towards your own friends means less. To give a more extreme example, what's worth more?

1) Your parents saying you are the best in the world at LOL
2) Your peers saying you are the best in the world at LOL
3) Random strangers on the street saying you are the best in the world at LOL


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Lørd Abel

Member

09-30-2012

RUNE PRISON WHEREe!


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SoloDragoon

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Senior Member

09-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
There's a lot of research that your vote of Honor towards your own friends means less. To give a more extreme example, what's worth more?

1) Your parents saying you are the best in the world at LOL
2) Your peers saying you are the best in the world at LOL
3) Random strangers on the street saying you are the best in the world at LOL
Right, as you stated though these are extreme examples. While these examples show a point, its just not all that powerful.

I should not or they should not receive a vote of less value from a friend. It doesn't make sense, from a social circle. While the point is to advocate good game-play from everyone.

To make another extreme example:
1. Your town says you're the best at LoL and there all friends.

That's quite a few people - while not all of them may be the best of friends, should there vote be less valuable?

I could see maybe limiting them to vote for your friend maybe once a day. Kind of thing seems fair if they actually use it. And work out any patterns that a persist of abuse, kind of thing.

My entire point is while the data on your end states that it should be limited, from a social level - and from the core of the system for everyone should strive to be the most honorable they can be. Even your friends, and should be fully rewarded if they are.


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Panzerfaust

Emissary of the League

09-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloDragoon View Post
Right, as you stated though these are extreme examples. While these examples show a point, its just not all that powerful.

I should not or they should not receive a vote of less value from a friend. It doesn't make sense, from a social circle. While the point is to advocate good game-play from everyone.

To make another extreme example:
1. Your town says you're the best at LoL and there all friends.

That's quite a few people - while not all of them may be the best of friends, should there vote be less valuable?

I could see maybe limiting them to vote for your friend maybe once a day. Kind of thing seems fair if they actually use it. And work out any patterns that a persist of abuse, kind of thing.

My entire point is while the data on your end states that it should be limited, from a social level - and from the core of the system for everyone should strive to be the most honorable they can be. Even your friends, and should be fully rewarded if they are.
By making these 'exceptions' and 'special cases,' you're already treating them differently.

He's not saying you shouldn't be able to honor your friends while in a premade, but that due to its nature of both knowing the other in question and the repetitive nature of premades, they are a different issue that needs a different (even if only slightly) solution.


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ncrwhale

Senior Member

09-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloDragoon View Post

My entire point is while the data on your end states that it should be limited, from a social level - and from the core of the system for everyone should strive to be the most honorable they can be. Even your friends, and should be fully rewarded if they are.
SoloDragoon, just stop. Stop and think. Will it be beneficial if friends can honor each other as frequently as you think they should?

The goal is for people to treat anonymous others with respect and honor. The core of the system is not what you think it is. Friends are friendly to their friends; that's tautologically sound.

Also, if you can rack up honor from a select group, why bother being honorable to others?