need help to get out of elo hell

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

t0ad5

Senior Member

09-20-2012

Quote:
78% of the time, neither team has this player.
That has not been my experience. Must be nice not being in elo hell.


Quote:
you win 56% and lose 44%
That is different then a coin toss, good job.
Too bad that isn't what my profile looks like. If it were, I probably wouldn't be in this thread; must be nice.
The game is supposed to be about competition. Not who gets the most baddies. I realize the inevitability, at any level, for a team to have a baddie or two. Point is there are so many down here, and I don't want to play with them anymore, because people down here don't know how to play the game (outside of obvious trolls), and I find that boring.
After over 2k+ games, should I really be playing with ppl with 200, 300, games played??? Not sure that is fair to either of us.

Here is where the "you must deserve to be down there" comes in.
I learned recently that I should carry (and lead) instead let the noobs I am playing with do what they want (too much a team player for my own good sometimes).
That went a long way to more wins. Was so close back to even, then massive fail teams and zzzzzz (wards are located under consumables, fyi); escape velocity seemingly impossible and odds not in favor of getting out.

There could be improvements. The system isn't perfect. I dont think you can argue against that.

In my case, I think that if my total games played had some affect on who I am playing with/against, I would be having more fun.

I'll keep trying and I very much look forward to elo reset. I don't think I will be returning to the abyss next season (baring worse luck lol). For those that are, I really hope Riot can make imporvements to the system.
I like the report at champ select idea. Many games over at champ select and it is snoozfest. Improvement here would go a long way.

Quote:
It's you and 4 "bad" teammates against 5 equally "bad" opponents.
I know, that is what I'm complaining about, all the bads, and Im stuck here. I don't deserve it, honestly. What I want most is a consistent good game, and I'm not getting that with this system.

Thanks for taking the time to inform me that what I experience every night isn't real. =P

Oh well, I'm still here playing. And I hope that there is enough visibility on this that improvements in the matchmaking system will be in place next season for the overall betterment, longevity and, most importantly, user enjoyment of the game

Good luck.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

09-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by t0ad5 View Post
That has not been my experience. Must be nice not being in elo hell.
Please learn some reading comprehension. It will help you in deciphering my apparently cryptic posts, as well as probably help you read some other tips and suggestions to make you a better player and help you climb to a better Elo.

I did not say that YOU personally are definitively only seeing trolls at a rate of 22% of all games played. What I was merely pointing out is that there is NOT one of these players playing in some sort of toxic behavior in 100% of your games. Obviously, the rate at which these players show up does vary, and they tend to show up less often as you rise in Elo.

But you're ignoring everyone point I make in favor of simply blindly believing that you're better than everyone else at your Elo, you're stuck at your Elo, you don't belong at your Elo, and the system is broken.

I'm not saying it's perfect. But it's not nearly as bad as you think it is just because you perceive yourself to be a better player than everyone else at your Elo.

In fact, let's take a look at your Ranked Stats on LoLking...

First thing I see that jumps out is that there is only ONE ranked match in your 10-game match history in which you had a positive KD but your team lost. You had a 5/0/8 match with Syndra, but lost. In your 10-match history, this is the only match in which you had a great performance, but lost the match. Your 1/2/5 Blitzcrank match isn't terrible, but then again, you're playing as support, which arguably might have the least impact of the 5 roles. But the point here really is, when you're having the following performances:

4/7/2 Ahri (70 cs in 27 minutes)
3/8/4 Amumu jungle (78 cs in 36 minutes)

in your ranked match history, it's hard to say that the only reason you're at the Elo you're at is because you get bad teammates.

Look, you have good matches at your Elo, and you have bad matches. Sometimes, when you have a good match, you lose anyway, like your 5/0/8 Syndra match. Sometimes (but nothing sticks out in recent history), you probably have a bad match, but your team wins anyway. None of your KDAcs lines look particularly impressive though. 5/3/6 Ezreal with 73 cs in 27 minutes. 4/2/7 Ahri with 136 cs in 27 minutes. These are solid performances, but they're also not outstanding. These don't stand out to me and say WHOA, this guy should have 300 higher Elo.

And when we look at your Ranked Stats by champion to see winrates, KDA, CS, etc., nothing particularly stands out. The only thing that stands out here is the fact that you don't really stick to a champion. The champion you've played most is Graves. You've played him 11 times out of 113 matches. So the champion you've played in most of you're ranked games, you've not even played 10% of the time.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

t0ad5

Senior Member

09-20-2012

And Im sure the team I was with had nothing to do with my score.

Most notebly, the ez game you complain about. Last p(r)ick decided that they were also going to adc (they claimed to not have other chars, they waited until it was their turn to mention anything about it, so we had 2 adc and I had to support him and try to cs and my score was better than his in the end because he was terribad).

And, with the mumu game there, I'm sure you've noticed that when the team is losing, during fights, the "tank" dies more then in games where the team isnt losing.

It seems to me, when all other lanes are lost (and/or your team decides to continuously fight outnumbered), you cant do much without dying, except maybe sit in base, and it is notibly hard to cs when you dont have any map control due to failed lanes and dead teammates.

Thanks for looking into it. I'm really sure it was fun, and it helped a lot (with something Im sure, right?).

Also, I've never played Syndra.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

09-20-2012

Err, sorry, that match was Morgana, not Syndra, I'm still not used to her new icon.

But here's the thing, t0ad5, if you want to blame your teammates for losses, that's one thing. But when you start blaming your teammates for your individual performance, that's where I stop taking you seriously. When you're saying "Well, my teammate is playing bad, therefore my performance will be bad," then YOU are now the reason you're stuck in your Elo. If you can't find a way to have a good performance in spite of your teammates, you're not going to win these close games. You can't let a bad performance by your teammate be the reason you lose, you simply can't.

And if bad laning teammates really are the reason you're losing, then avoid, at all costs, playing in bottom lane. Play solomid, jungle, and solotop.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

t0ad5

Senior Member

09-20-2012

Quote:
But when you start blaming your teammates for your individual performance
I don't remember doing this.

But: haven't you had a game where the team is dumbly fighting again and you are like, "well, I guess I should go help them, even though it is lost and they are dumb for fighting, because if I don't then they will just rage at me for being a noob. Besides the game is lost anyway, what does kdr matter at this point." Little did I know you would be looking up my match history to make a lesson.

Quote:
When you're saying "Well, my teammate is playing bad, therefore my performance will be bad," then YOU are now the reason you're stuck in your Elo
If we as a team cannot control the map (for whatever reason, let us say my team is really good this time, but the other team is just better), then I personally will not be able to be out past a turret (as a carry). I think that is a good example. *shrug*

Ok, had fun. Guess I should do some work irl.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

09-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by t0ad5 View Post
And Im sure the team I was with had nothing to do with my score.
...

I mean, you even continue to blame your teammates for your performance in the very post in which you claim to not remember doing that...

Look, you KNOW your teammates are bad. You keep pointing this out and making the claim. Even if the average skill level of the enemy team is slightly above your four teammates (yes, this can happen), you're REALLY good remember? You don't belong in the Elo you're in because you're SO much better than everyone else at your Elo, right?

You don't have to control the whole map, but you can control the part of the map you're trying to farm in. Buy a couple wards, farm under the turret, do whatever you can. You need to stop looking at your teammates and figuring out all the things your team is doing wrong that's causing your team to lose and start focusing on the things that you, individually, can be doing better for your team.

And again, some games WILL be unwinnable. But when I look at your match history, you're not always positive KDA, I only once see a match where your team lost in spite of a good performance by you, and even in your wins, none of your stat lines are particularly impressive. There's not one case where you just completely dominated and rofl-stomped the enemy team.

And the REAL problem here is your complete refusal to even admit that you could play better. Do you think you're a 2.8k+ Elo player already? I doubt it. You only think (and I happen to disagree), that you're significantly better than whatever bracket you're in. You may think you're a 1200+ player, maybe 1400+, maybe 1600+. I don't know. But the thing is, even if you think you're a 1600+ player, don't you realize that even at this level, there'd still be massive room for improvement?

You want to play on par with what is expected when you're at your proper Elo bracket, yet move up in Elo. If you want to move up in Elo, you have to be better than everyone in your Elo. You can't expect to be better than that one really bad player you see once in a while who makes up a whopping 10% of the match, and still move up in Elo. Nope. If you actually deserve to move up in Elo, you're better than all 9 players in your match, consistently, and you're crushing the enemy team. If you're the AP mid, you're making the enemy AP mid look like the feeder/troller/rager/AFKer that the other team is blaming for their loss, and then you're roaming the map and crushing the other lanes too. And you get more than 70 CS in 30 minutes...


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

t0ad5

Senior Member

09-20-2012

Quote:
I mean, you even continue to blame your teammates for your performance in the very post in which you claim to not remember doing that...
But I didn't. You are saying that I was arguing that my team effects my personal performance. I think I provided some cases where this can be true, actually, but this was never my point and I think you are distracted.
Nor did I claim to be really good. I claimed that I am better then most of the people at my elo based on number of games played (experience).

I always buy wards and know how to use them, thanks.

Quote:
And the REAL problem here is your complete refusal to even admit that you could play better
Never said that. You did. You seem to think I said it. But, I didnt.. so... not sure what your deal is.

Quote:
Do you think you're a 2.8k+ Elo player already?
Lol, no. I don't know or care what my rating should be. Im too old for epeen. I just want a consistantly good, competetive game, and I think I would find that at higher ranks.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

09-20-2012

t0ad5, if you're struggling to perform well at the Elo bracket you're in, don't you think you're finding competitive enough matches?

Why do you think playing against better opponents will result in anything but worse score lines for yourself? You may find better teammates, but you'll also find better opponents. And the enemy team gets better at a faster rate than your team as you move up in Elo.

Let's suppose you're at 900 Elo right now. Now, if your actual skill level is 1200, and you were to move up to 1200, it'd be five 1200 Elo players against five other 1200 Elo players. This would be a pretty good match, right?

But why would this be a good match? Because everyone would be the same rank? If that's the case, then how come your matches where it's five 900 Elo players against four 900 Elo players and one 1200 Elo player aren't consistently bad matches IN FAVOR of the team with the significantly better player on their team every single time?

Moreover, let's suppose for a second that you're at 900 Elo and your actual skill level really is 900 Elo. What do you think would happen if all of the sudden you were involved in matches where five 1200 Elo players were taking on four 1200 Elo players and one 900 Elo player?

The point you're making is that you're of a higher skill level than all the other players in your bracket and therefore deserve to be at a higher Elo. The point I'm making is, if you're so much better than all of these players, then why aren't you crushing the games at this level?

Again, as I already explained, if there are players at your level that single handedly make games unwinnable for their team, then the enemy team is dealing with this sort of player 20% more often than your team.

And in every game that this player is not in your match, the odds of your team winning are (in an ideal world), 50/50. But the odds in these matches AREN'T 50/50. They're only 50/50 if it's 5 equally skilled players versus 5 equally skilled players. Your point is that this isn't the case. You're telling me it's 5 equally skilled players versus 4 equally skilled players and one player that's better than the other 9 players in the match. And if this is the case, your chances of winning are greater than 50%. They're greater than 50% by exactly whatever margin of skill you have over the players in your bracket (a 2.4k Elo player has a larger chance of winning in the 900 bracket than a 1200 player, but they both have an edge either way).

So, due to these two statistical facts, you WILL rise in Elo if you're even just marginally better than the players in your bracket. I mean, it's simply statistical FACT. And you're arguing with statistical fact. You're not arguing with me... you're arguing with statistical fact.

You're saying "I'm not winning enough games to rise in Elo." and instead of being rational and realizing that it probably means you're not as good as you think you are, you're chalking it up to the fact that, on average, your teammates are worse than your enemies, and you have no individual impact on the game.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

t0ad5

Senior Member

09-20-2012

Quote:
t0ad5, if you're struggling to perform well at the Elo bracket you're in, don't you think you're finding competitive enough matches?
I don't remember saying that I was struggling to perform.

Quote:
then why aren't you crushing the games at this level?
One person can do so much. Cannot singlehandedly win every game.


Quote:
you WILL rise in Elo if you're even just marginally better than the players in your bracket
Yeah, I am aware, eventually, yes? I was almost out, 7 games to break even. Then, 15 games in a row, losses. I remember two where I outright lost, toss in some leavers/afks/trolls, and snowballed into hell.

Quote:
And you're arguing with statistical fact. You're not arguing with me... you're arguing with statistical fact.
Actually, I'm explaining my experience of the game , and you keep talking about how it doesnt fit the algorithm. I'm aware, thanks.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

09-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by t0ad5 View Post
I don't remember saying that I was struggling to perform.
Lolking said it for you.