Syndra Discussion Thread

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lbgsloan

Senior Member

09-14-2012

Tried her out briefly. She seems like variant of Orianna, but without the strong utility that makes a well played Orianna feel rewarding. She seems to need too many items to really get going; a chalice or RoA (or maybe even both) is absolutely necessary, you need a rylai's in there since her game revolves around long range poke and kiting, you need a void since the nerfed abyssal range sucks for her and you can't really afford to fit a guise in there, you need CDR since she depends on being able to spam Q and needs E up as much as possible...just ugh.

I'm sure some top SR player will prove everyone wrong and make her dominate on SR (though it will likely involve a duo jungler who feeds her every single blue buff), but Dominion? Not seeing it right now, not without improved AP itemization. There are just too many more reliable AP picks.


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SlasherBag

Senior Member

09-14-2012

The bad:
Her slow movespeed and bad (APratio+base damage):mana ratio have made her not my cup of tea on dominion. It makes her require a lot of items to deal significant damage even early game on dom. Her cc is awesome though. Also feels like the range on her R is just a hair too short to put her right at easy access for bruisers in a team fight.

The good:
The Q+E combo feels like playing pool. Her w can make for some critical slows in team fights (and can even be used for pulling a big melee creep off a tower when you're bot if you're getting pushed a little too hard early). I lost this matchup pretty hard, but you can also grab yoricks spawned minions, so when he pops is green you can just pick it up and slow him with it.

If she gets slightly better AP ratios I could see her being a very viable mage in dom, but right now I just don't see it. Maybe someone else does.


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GrignardTS

Senior Member

09-14-2012

With the ridiculously high base damage on that ultimate:

6 spheres at make rank hits for (320 x 6 = 1920) and the CD is actually really short (100/90/80s, 60/54/48 w/ max CDR)

6 spheres is pushing it, but possible with near max CDR. And, as shown above, it will just tare into someone.

I'd imagine CDR+Mpen would be the way to go. Of course some beef (as nearly every mage needs), but I don't think of tank mage here as she doesn't have the utility to back up the lack of damage.

A 1.5 s stun on a 18/14s CD and a single target slow is not enough to make her a 'utility mage' like Orianna. She is much closer to a Veigar that isn't as reliant on farming.

I'm ~400 IP away and will give a much better analysis later. I will try Pure AP, Tanky AP, Mpen+CDR. IMO those builds are in order from worst to best.


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Catnium

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Senior Member

09-14-2012

when you test give us a non biast opinion based on real games not maxed out 6 item builds because you wont ever get those in a dominion match.

up to now ive simply walked all over this champion ,, hence my opinion is that she's an over complicated low damage mage .Non of them have ever succeeded in pushing me out of bot. ( altho this might be coz she's new)
i just ignore her mostly her balls dont do alot of damage dont do damage when placed you just walk over them with out any hp loss and i can eazly get back the hp i lost by walking true one of her ball trow combo's to flatten her face evenly with the pavement.
Only her ult seems to do anything damage wise alto the constant slowing is annoying.

But all in all i dont feel she dues enough damage for all the actions the summoner has to do just to trow a ball on me


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larkhill

Senior Member

09-14-2012

the problem with taking her top is that she's very reliant on single target dmg on her ult. she cant kill anyone without her ult. once she blows someone up, she's relegated to playing pool with her Q E.

i suggest trying her out for bot lane. she can manipulate the wave and push when needed. her burst, even without ap, is very high due to scaling off of how many balls u have on the field as well as ap. with early cdr, u can burst people down pretty easily.

chalice, sorc boots, dfg, becomes your core build. after that, tanky ap items become needed. hourglass/abyssal come to mind.

the thing to remember with syndra is that she takes time to set up. its kindof like playing pool. u gotta set up the board and wait for the right moment to strike. sure u could Q E R out of a bush and do decent dmg but if u set up with 3 balls in that bush, then R E dfg W Q, u'll do much more.

**i dont know if this still works but it used to on the pbe**
u can grab a ball, have 3 on the field, and then use ult, effectively having 4 balls to ult with instead of 3. the combo then becomes Q Q W (the 2nd ball) Q Q R E dfg W Q

i suspect that syndra will be a lot like orianna in terms of progression. for 2 months or so, release ori was deemed useless due to low dmg. then out of nowhere she was the most op champ in the game cause people realized she could zone...

syndra is deemed worthless due to her terrible E range. in a few months, expect her to dominate counterjungling comps due to her W.

in dom, i suspect she'll be a top tier bot laner fairly soon. her burst is simply insane


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Infirc

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Senior Member

09-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larkhill View Post

**i dont know if this still works but it used to on the pbe**
u can grab a ball, have 3 on the field, and then use ult, effectively having 4 balls to ult with instead of 3. the combo then becomes Q Q W (the 2nd ball) Q Q R E dfg W Q

i suspect that syndra will be a lot like orianna in terms of progression. for 2 months or so, release ori was deemed useless due to low dmg. then out of nowhere she was the most op champ in the game cause people realized she could zone...

syndra is deemed worthless due to her terrible E range. in a few months, expect her to dominate counterjungling comps due to her W.

in dom, i suspect she'll be a top tier bot laner fairly soon. her burst is simply insane
that was actually a bug i just tried it out, your ultimate happens to launch all the uleashed balls that you have on the field so if i do Q then Q again then the first W for the reset and Q again without doing the second cast of W i will Launch a Total of 5 balls even if i have 6, because the sixth is Leashed to you and will remain leashed as you cast your ultimate so Syndra won't throw that ball, you would have to cast the second cast of W in order to get a full 6 balls ultimate, which sounds easy on Paper but it's too slow for an actual battle, you'll pretty much have that Pesky Jax/Wukong in your face once you manage to effectively have 6 balls on the field without Leashes, she's indeed an Orianna (completely Broken at Sr but people thinks she's weak) but she is just not cut for Dominion, even Heimer can setup faster than her .


Jax can Faceroll her but she's pretty good in bot against that Pesky Darius


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A Slime Appears

Senior Member

09-14-2012

Syndra is OP. Even though I haven't played her at all I know this because all new heroes are released OP so Riot can make bank.


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Souloni

Junior Member

09-14-2012

Definitely no expert in playing Syndra, but I've put in quite a bit of lab time vs. CPU. It's given me the chance to test her with various builds, various support members, and against enemies who (even after getting stomped for 15 Minutes) end up with near full builds.

Here's my opinion on some of the bigger topics...

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1. Mana Starved
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It's true, Syndra is a major mana sink, but it could be worse. With the CS aura and Prospector's Ring I am able to maintain a good level of mana. You will definitely need to pick up Health Boosts to remain in lane after team fights, but characters like Zyra and Sona (Rushing Trinity) and Ahri are more prone to running OOM at clutch moments.

Syndra is execution heavy, and it means that sometimes you will have to hold back finishing your combo for sustained pokes. Ahri, Morgana, and many others use the same approach, so this isn't a specific drawback for Syndra.

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2. Underpowered
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Mostly commented by SR players, but I've seen a few people on the dominion thread say this as well. I don't understand how a champion with a 4 second AOE nuke can ever be considered weak in Dominion, but there are a few things that definitely cause problems when playing Syndra...

- Her range for Q is low.
- People aren't used to casting while moving.
- Her E is tricky.
- Her defenses are very low, and unforgiving.
- Her tricks are limited in closed spaces.

Sounds a lot like Katarina actually. If you don't like the way Katarina handles, then you're definitely out of luck with Syndra. Precision is key, and as of this post, I lack it still. What I do notice though, is mastering the use of Q->E causes problems for the opponent. Big time. The heavy bruiser meta capitalizes on stuns in a big way.

Statwise, Syndra's defenses are quite low. You can poke, but you can't "initiate". Slows dominate you as well because it takes 2 moves AND positioning to stop a chaser. Unlike a Zyra combo, there will be no plant harassing while you run. As such, she relies on her ultimate to get away much like Ahri. Time will tell if Syndra has the vitality to live long enough for the ultimate to even finish it's strike...

Syndra is strong though. You definitely want to avoid getting hit by an orb or the toss. She can also clear a minion wave quickly and easily.

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3. My Playstyle
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I cannot play her as a solo bottom simply because she lacks vitality and escape options. She's as good as free by herself. Top is definitely more in her realm of expertise.

When you pair Syndra up with other players, things get wild. Get inside the enemy team's strategy by showing them just how long range your W can be. You need to be aggressive to set up a kill, not to make one yourself, so think like a tank and don't blow your mana on Q->W->E repetitions at Windmill.

She's the only mage champion I own that can move while casting; this is MAJOR. Plan a route and click away. Play out your combo while moving, rather than casting and standing in place. Head towards the jungle while you grab that orb and launch it.

Do not hesitate to use your Ultimate on 4 orbs (never fewer). The ultimate is a major damage dealer at 6, but it gives you utility at 4. It's on a very low cooldown, so feel free to use it as a guaranteed escape when you need to ultimate and scatter the weak. Chances are if you are hitting the same target with 3 orbs and then ultimate you'll reach overkill.

Farming is dangerous, but you can clear minion waves quicker than any bruiser. Q, W, and Q at the beginning. Q, W later on. The more AP you get, the quicker you save mana laning.

Syndra is slow. Very slow. Boots of mobility solves 1/2 of the equation, because you will need to go back to the shop frequently. I consider Syndra to be very piecemeal. You want each and every piece of an upgrade so you can stay ahead of your opponents. Don't let the enemy take advantage of this and use mobility to get right back into the action. It'll depend on the game flow, but don't underestimate timing versus stats.

Combo setups are very difficult, so think outside of the box. Don't rush in and spam Q if there's a team fight you're trying to make, you'll only get in death range. Spawn a ball early, carry it, and slam it down. Better yet, grab a minion on the way! Don't be afraid to start with W. Also, don't forget E can shoot your ball through some walls! Super flashy, and much appreciated.

Cooldown reduction is hard to fit in her build, but you want as much as possible. Of course, with lower cooldowns comes higher mana cost. If you go the CDR route, you'll need a grail.

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4. What Syndra NEEDS
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A billiards skin. She totally plays pool with her orbs and knocks people around! I want this very badly.


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MajorUrsa

Senior Member

09-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrignardTS View Post
With the ridiculously high base damage on that ultimate:

6 spheres at make rank hits for (320 x 6 = 1920) and the CD is actually really short (100/90/80s, 60/54/48 w/ max CDR)

6 spheres is pushing it, but possible with near max CDR. And, as shown above, it will just tare into someone.

I'd imagine CDR+Mpen would be the way to go. Of course some beef (as nearly every mage needs), but I don't think of tank mage here as she doesn't have the utility to back up the lack of damage.

A 1.5 s stun on a 18/14s CD and a single target slow is not enough to make her a 'utility mage' like Orianna. She is much closer to a Veigar that isn't as reliant on farming.

I'm ~400 IP away and will give a much better analysis later. I will try Pure AP, Tanky AP, Mpen+CDR. IMO those builds are in order from worst to best.
Itemizing for her is inane and frustrating. She is insanely squishy and incredibly easy to move in on. That 14 second stun is very, very, difficult to land. Any champion that gets in on you can walk past the orb before you can drop it and hit it with an E, if you whiff the E you have no choice but to slowly walk around while you try to drop your QWQR combo on their heads before your dead.

The tanky AP build allows you to survive a couple hits, but you will still get absolutely torn open by any competent bot. Building tanky doesnt give her enough damage either.

As she is now, I do not like playing her on bot. If your team ever loses top, its very easy to setup a gank. Your stun can really only hit 1 opponent reliably, if you even land it, and after you use your E your options are poke and walk away. Any champion with a slow, strong initiation, high damage nuke (Rengar eats her alive, 90% of your health gone with a tanky build before I could even E), will take her out making bottom difficult to hold unless your playing really passively and even then, shes an easy target to dive on. Remember she can only hit one target with her stun, her pushback is melee range and has very little damage, and she can be focused in about 2 seconds.

On top, all the problems she has on bot can either be further exasperated or made slightly less painful through good team composition. If you have a couple strong tanks with initiation skills and a high profile target that has to be killed, you can sit back and fling minions to your hearts content. More then likely however, people realize how slow you are, and melt you before you really do much. Her combo is also pretty difficult to set up, you're rarely if ever going to land a 6 orb combo before your just dead. 5 is fairly easy to do, 6 becomes annoying to manage and rare to say the least, and I dont believe in the 7 orb combo. It does not exist.

I need to stop buying champions on launch day until Ive read about their Dominion viability.


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lbgsloan

Senior Member

09-14-2012

My guess is Riot didn't want to rock the boat again for the S2 championship after the flak they've gotten from Jayce, Durrius, Zyra and Diana. If she's secret OP (on SR), her skillcap is high enough that even the pros probably won't make her work anytime soon. I do think her E needs some tweaking though, as said it's extremely hard to consistantly land her stun and if that misses she's generally dead.