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Vladamir-Ap or Tank

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DaGhost

Senior Member

09-21-2010

I've been running a pure hp Vlad and getting tons of **** talked to me for it, on the premise that i should be building ap instead. I understand part of this is my not knowing the character but here is my gripe.

My assumption was that given his passive, its was better to be a tanky caster who lives more often than he dies, as compared to a focus nuker who kills often but can die easily.

My Basic math was that 475 gives me 180hp and 19 ap while 435 gave me 40 hp and 20 ap. Its seems more beneficial for me to be hp based as compared to being AP based. In addition my W is scaling very nicely off of hp. Now granted, his Q and R scale much better with AP so an AP Vlad will hit much hard than my vlad, but if my vlad is alive to run his spells at least twice wouldn't it be more beneficial to still build tank?

Health per gold Ruby - .38, Giants Belt-.39, Sunfire-.18

AP per Gold Tome - .046 Wand - .047

In the raw items its clear that health per gold your are getting more for your money(nothing new here) but with vlad's passive in mind it may be more beneficial to just keep getting hp items as they improve vlad's survivablitly. Rylai's is also very sick on him interms of cost benefit ratio and effects granted.


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RoflTroll

Senior Member

09-21-2010

Because you can be that guy with 6 Warmogs and run arounds without dying, but you will do so little damage (compare to another Vlad with full AP items of the same prices) the other team will just ignores you, kill your team, then kill you if you're still around.

Getting some HP is fine, but surviving does not equate to winning, and Vlad already have pretty good lasting power because of Q, W and potentially Zhonya.


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HellBound Boss

Senior Member

09-21-2010

Your ult is all your team needs in a team fight. I go tanky vlad as well and it works


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Sevrin

Senior Member

09-21-2010

play him fluid. He has wonderful capacity for various builds without changing his runes or masteries.

If you're owning face early game, go straight AP to keep the snowball rolling. You'll soon do obscene damage, and be nigh unkillable. A fed AP Vlad is truly terrifying.
I'm against Soulstealer in general, but Vlad is one of the characters that can capitalize on it, as early stacks and Zonyias can make you unstoppable with your high health and excellent escape. I always run ghost to cover extra ground while in puddle.

If you perform average, concider a tanky item depending on the team. My two favourites are Randuins and Spirit Visage due to the CDR, health, and other utility bits they bring. I often build both, and with proper runes and masteries, this can get you to 40% CDR. This build will not make you a fraction as terrifying as pure AP, but can pay off late game if your a high priority target, and lets you wade into team fights to spam your low cooldown abilities...but if your not a focus target, more damage is often the better choice for your team. Thornmail as a late purchase against problematic physical carries can be golden with your gigantic bulging sack of health.

If your team needs a tank, you can build heavier tank with a focus on health, but this is generally a waste of his talents...but if the situation calls for it, do it. I can't imagine doing this anywhere but within a poor teamcomp in solo queue.

My build generally always starts with boots and a Rylais, followed by either one or both tank items, Abbysal Scepter, or Haunting Guise, topped off with Zonyias for the oomf, and combo - puddle- combo - ring - combo - puddle - combo (or escape)

Pure HP items shouldn't be taken with his passive in mind: the ratio is rather bad. Think of your passive as a nice little bonus for the HP you get. The AP to HP ratio is much better


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Angry gorilla

Senior Member

09-21-2010

He is a caster. ALL FOUR Abilities PLUS half his passive scale with AP

Half a ****ing passive scales with HP..

Get out. Worse than DPS Kennen.


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Moebiuz

Senior Member

09-21-2010

Quote:
DaGhost:


Health per gold Ruby - .38, Giants Belt-.39, Sunfire-.18

AP per Gold Tome - .046 Wand - .047

In the raw items its clear that health per gold your are getting more for your money(nothing new here) but with vlad's passive in mind it may be more beneficial to just keep getting hp items as they improve vlad's survivablitly. Rylai's is also very sick on him interms of cost benefit ratio and effects granted.


But you are forgetting that when getting AP you increase your gold earnings.


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DarkenDragon

Senior Member

09-21-2010

I just want to point out that pure hp is not a tank, its just a giant sponge wall, without armor/resistance you'll drop like a rock, the most hp you'll ever need is about 3000-3500 the rest should be resistance and getting more ap, the resistance will pretty much double or triple the effective health you have

also if your getting pure hp items, this usually means you wont have much magic pen items then, and magic pen can also increase your damage potential.

im not saying getting hp is bad, just focusing on getting hp and only hp is bad, you need balance


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DaGhost

Senior Member

09-21-2010

Quote:
DarkenDragon:
I just want to point out that pure hp is not a tank, its just a giant sponge wall, without armor/resistance you'll drop like a rock, the most hp you'll ever need is about 3000-3500 the rest should be resistance and getting more ap, the resistance will pretty much double or triple the effective health you have

also if your getting pure hp items, this usually means you wont have much magic pen items then, and magic pen can also increase your damage potential.

im not saying getting hp is bad, just focusing on getting hp and only hp is bad, you need balance


Aside from leviathan which also has the ability to reduce damage, I would say at least 75% of items with HP in them are giving you either Armor or Magic resistance

That guy who said he is a mage, his W ability scales of HP, and his passive scales better of hp than it does of AP for your money.

I am going to be less pure hp tanky and try and get a Rylais involved in my build, it seems too good to pass up, but the hp you gain from AP is pitiful, the only two items that probably are worth it in terms of money would be A full stacked Mejais or a Zhonyas for the 2 seconds of immortality. If he had a mana pool i could see throwing in RoA.


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DrunkHobo15

Senior Member

09-21-2010

Dorans shield+pot
mejais(if you think youre god you can get leviathan too)
rylais
zhonyas

Vlad's innate survivability makes getting stack items on him very rewarding and really lets you carry through the midgame to a quick win.

You should NOT be getting warmogs or visage on vlad....period. Rylais and your passive is enough.


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Nadipity

Recruiter

09-21-2010

I think people tend to see the value of his passive inflated.

There's a nice give-back to it, but it shouldn't at all be used for his main source of ability power. The ratio isn't nearly high enough - stacking 3k health gives you 120 AP - yes. Yay. But considering how much you spent to get up to 3k, as an end game caster you should be far over 120.

So getting to that point is very "meh" because you're like a waste of space. You can soak up damage, sure, but you barely deal it out compared to where you should be.


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