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I can confirm that standard AD kog'maw DOES work in dominion

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Secretnir

Senior Member

09-13-2012

Quote:
Phourc:
Penetrating 50% (well, 49% with aura + mastery + void staff) of the enemy's resistances is always a pretty good damage booster - but the enemy has to build some MR for it to be worth it. Otherwise, you'd probably be better off building flat MPen.

e.g.
At 30 MR (23% reduced), base for all champions, you'd only reduce them to 15 MR (13% reduced) for a damage increase of 13%.
At 100 MR (50% reduced) your would reduce them to 50 MR (33% reduced) for a damage increase of 33%.
At 200 MR (67% reduced) you would reduce them to 100 MR (50% reduced) for a damage increase of 50%.

For 2300g, I'd definitely take that 50% damage increase - for the 30 MR I'd most likely just pick up a haunting guise, sorc shoes or a malady if you don't have one already - the damage increase will be much more noticeable (and cheaper).


I don't know that anyone besides Rammus, Shen, Malphite or similar would ever be getting aroundish 200 MR in Dominion-- and even then, only if there was substantial AP damage on your team. I see armor prioritized much more highly.


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Phourc

Senior Member

09-13-2012

Quote:
Secretnir:
I don't know that anyone besides Rammus, Shen, Malphite or similar would ever be getting aroundish 200 MR in Dominion-- and even then, only if there was substantial AP damage on your team. I see armor prioritized much more highly.


Anything in the 100-ish range should make it worth it (tm).

I do agree you don't usually see even tanks break 200 armor in Dominion, I was just pulling nice round numbers out of my ass xP


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GrignardTS

Senior Member

09-13-2012

200 MR? Probably not.

120-150? Most defiantly. And a 33% - 40% increase in damage cannot be obtained with any other item. There is a reason AD Casters rush LW.


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Wolf Un1t

Senior Member

09-13-2012

Quote:
Secretnir:
Since I didn't see the original post/discussion, could you post your build? If you could mention them in the order you get the items that'd be helpful too.

I'd love to. Keep in mind that these items can be bought in any order if the situation so calls, and any situational item can be bought if you need it (enemy AP assasin raping you? Just buy a negatron cloak and you won't blow up instantly when they touch you)

This is how my standard AD build works so far, and it's still subject to change despite the success I had with it, just in case I feel another works even better. I like to get a BF sword at first, then grab a quick zeal for attack speed. Then finish Infinity edge, then Phantom dancer. Once you have those two items, your damage output is absoultely crazy already. After this point, I buy a vamp scepter if i need survivability, or a chain vest/negatron cloak if there is a champion giving me trouble (like maybe xin diving me) If you REALLY need to, you can get a situational frozen mallet/phage if you need to kite some enemies.After a chainvest/negatron/vamp I like to build Last whisper as enemies start to get scared of you so they start buying armor and frozen heart and thornmail and all that annoying stuff. If you are having trouble because multiple enemies are buying thornmail, a quick negatron should do the trick (since Thorn mail does magic damage), along with the vamp sceptor if you don't alrady have that.

Normally the games don't really last that much longer after you get this Infinity, PD, and LW along with a quick defensive item, your damage output with those three items is just crazy, and if the game does happen to drag on, you'll just keep getting stronger and stronger. Build the vamp scepter into a sanguine (you can build it into sanguine earlier than you get LW of the enemies arn't building much armor.) If the game still isn't over yet, maybe another phantom dancer? Again, remember to build according to your situation, don't build you second PD if you don't need it, but more attack speed and move speed and crits for kog is just godly at this late in the game

Oh yeah and boots. You'll notice someone in this thread saying "Did you get mercury treads like I suggested" or something of the sort. Hey, if you find yourself getting stunlocked in the middle of the fight, go ahead and grab some. But I feel like I can mostly get away with getting berserkers greaves, and it scales excellently with koggles throughout the game with his Q and phantom dancer. Also, the games I did buy mercs didn't help at all, my damage ouput was less and I was still having trouble with blitzcrank jayce alistar warwick skarner and all champions with CC of that sort. Also, most assasins don't need CC to kill you


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Rebonack

Senior Member

09-13-2012

Well, I'll start by saying that my old Tanky/Magic Pen build on Koggy doesn't work nearly as well as it used to. The loss of base damage and the more punishing mana requirements for his Ult really hurts. And the aura range reduction on Abyssal really didn't help either =/

Straight AD is probably the best way to go now, which is a real shame.


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GrignardTS

Senior Member

09-13-2012

Quote:
Rebonack:

Straight AD is probably the best way to go now, which is a real shame.


Have you tried going more glass cannon? Like Tear+Chalice, Mpen+Cdr, Rylai's, Cap?

I'd imagine Tear+Chalice+Cs Aura would make up for the mana nerf. And you could fit him into an aggressive tank team like Kog+Naut+J4 to make up for not building thick. Maybe initially go bottom and farm to L13 for rank 2 R? Switch top for ultimate siege with a major item over everyone top because of farm?


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konfetarius

Senior Member

09-13-2012

Quote:
I'd imagine Tear+Chalice+Cs Aura would make up for the mana nerf. And you could fit him into an aggressive tank team like Kog+Naut+J4 to make up for not building thick. Maybe initially go bottom and farm to L13 for rank 2 R? Switch top for ultimate siege with a major item over everyone top because of farm?

Not even close. The Dominion aura barely matched blue buff when you had AA and a 3k mana pool. It's not going to keep up with doubled mana cost on his R.


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GrignardTS

Senior Member

09-13-2012

Quote:
konfetarius:
Not even close. The Dominion aura barely matched blue buff when you had AA and a 3k mana pool. It's not going to keep up with doubled mana cost on his R.


Assume 2.5k mana pool
Assume L10

Blue buff:
25 mp5 base
0.5% mana per second

Total of 87.5 mp5 gained from Blue Buff

CS Aura + Chalice
2% mana regen per 1% mana missing
assume you're between 50%-0% mana
Kog's Mana Regen (Base+Tear+Chalice+MP5 Seals) = 35 mp5
Kog's Mana Regen (Base+AA+AUG+MP5 Seals) = 60 mp5

So between 35-70 mp5 gained with just Tear and Chalice
And 60-120 mp5 gained with AA and AUG

Easily comparable.


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konfetarius

Senior Member

09-13-2012

Oh Christ, when did they nerf blue buff mana regen again. I was going off older values.

Regardless, my point stands. AP Kog's overall damage output has been crippled by doubling the mana cap. And lower base damage on his R extended his extremely weak early game.


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GrignardTS

Senior Member

09-13-2012

Quote:
konfetarius:

Regardless, my point stands. AP Kog's overall damage output has been crippled by doubling the mana cap.


Certainly. Pre-nerf, Tear+CS aura+FH was enough for some sick spammage.

As long as you don't fall asleep with your nose on R, I am confident that adding Chalice will make up for the difference.