Great idea. Will it happen? You decide.

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Rlot Suxxx Balls

Junior Member

09-11-2012

What I'd like to know is, when someone quits right away, leaving you to go 4v5. Then what? It'd be nice if someone is force DC'd. (I know you get kicked for inactivity) Then it could queue a new player into the game, but I dunno how that'd work. Maybe an average level/gold total among his team mates as he enters the battle, so he can buy gear, level his skills and roll out? I'd gladly take any able bodied person even if it takes them a bit to get into action, as opposed to being stuck because someone left immediately or very early on.

THIS ^^^

This was a post by Caidan as a reply in another thread. Great idea about the average level/gold. Maybe make the average gold/level amongst ALL players, not just allies. Maybe give an incentive of free IP/RP to fill in games with leavers? Just spit-balling here. Any suggestions about how this could work, or be made to work?


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onihero

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Senior Member

09-11-2012

If you are left as a 4v5, you should have the ability to immediately surrender the game, despite it being <20 mins. It shouldnt be a majority vote necessary either.

You shouldnt be forced to sit through the rest of that type of a game. Is it winnable? Sure. Not likely, but sure. So is a 1v5 even with astronomical odds. So is a 1v5 against M5, sure. Doesnt mean you should be forced into it.

Perhaps that shouldnt apply to ranked, but it should to normals.


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SimplyAlive

Senior Member

09-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by onihero View Post
If you are left as a 4v5, you should have the ability to immediately surrender the game, despite it being <20 mins. It shouldnt be a majority vote necessary either.

You shouldnt be forced to sit through the rest of that type of a game. Is it winnable? Sure. Not likely, but sure. So is a 1v5 even with astronomical odds. So is a 1v5 against M5, sure. Doesnt mean you should be forced into it.

Perhaps that shouldnt apply to ranked, but it should to normals.
I agree with the gist of the suggestion, but not the bolded part. In a teamgame, you simply have to sacrifice your personal 'fun' for the team. If 3 out of 4 players want to continue playing a 4v5, the fourth player should not be able to overrule that decision with his only vote.

A borderline decision would be 2/2, but I lean towards continuing the match. After all, who knows whether the fifth player reconnects soon enough.


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Rlot Suxxx Balls

Junior Member

09-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by onihero View Post
If you are left as a 4v5, you should have the ability to immediately surrender the game, despite it being <20 mins. It shouldnt be a majority vote necessary either.

You shouldnt be forced to sit through the rest of that type of a game. Is it winnable? Sure. Not likely, but sure. So is a 1v5 even with astronomical odds. So is a 1v5 against M5, sure. Doesnt mean you should be forced into it.

Perhaps that shouldnt apply to ranked, but it should to normals.
I agree with that as an option, but what do you think of the "calling the cavalry" option and getting a pinch-hitter? Feedback?


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Rlot Suxxx Balls

Junior Member

09-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimplyAlive View Post
I agree with the gist of the suggestion, but not the bolded part. In a teamgame, you simply have to sacrifice your personal 'fun' for the team. If 3 out of 4 players want to continue playing a 4v5, the fifth player should not be able to overrule that decision with his only vote.

A borderline decision would be 2/2, but I lean towards continuing the match. After all, who knows whether the fifth player reconnects soon enough.
Any actual feedback about the "bring in a pinch-hitter" option? :/


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Geekweezul

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Senior Member

09-11-2012

I agree with Oni, except for the "doesn't need to be a majority vote" thing.

As for the "bring in a pinch-hitter" option...maybe that could work for non-ranked games...but I don't think it would be feasible for ranked.


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Rlot Suxxx Balls

Junior Member

09-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geekweezul View Post
I agree with Oni, except for the "doesn't need to be a majority vote" thing.

As for the "bring in a pinch-hitter" option...maybe that could work for non-ranked games...but I don't think it would be feasible for ranked.
Don't forget about the possible IP bonus as an incentive to stay in game as an existing crippled team member, and to be a pinch hitter!


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Exploding Barrel

Senior Member

09-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rlot Suxxx Balls View Post
I agree with that as an option, but what do you think of the "calling the cavalry" option and getting a pinch-hitter? Feedback?
Seems like there are a few pretty big problems they'd have to work out for this to be feasible. Off the top of my head:

- What champion does the new player play? Do they choose knowing what's already in the game? That would be pretty unfair for counterpick opportunities, etc. But how do you make sure they don't pick a champ already in the game without giving them that info?

- How do you make sure the new player brings a champ that fills the missing role (assuming it's early game)?

- How much gold do you give them? A support would typically have a fraction of the gold at, say, the 10 minute mark that an AD carry would. I think for there to be a good ballpark gold amount awarded the system would have to know their role, but currently system-recognized roles isn't a thing. And can a typical player assess the opponents, allies, all other players' builds, game timer, and all the other factors of an intelligent build effectively in a short time all at once?

- Is it reasonable to expect a team to catch up a new player on what's going on and what tactics are being used, whether someone's already building aegis, who's being focused, etc etc mid-game? Or will everyone just be frustrated because the new person has no idea what's going on and that leads to poor play?

- How will people be incentivized to do this? I assume it would be a separate queue? Personally the idea of dropping in random games in progress does not sound fun to me at all.

- Does this promote toxic behavior? I can see it adding a reason for bullying a bad player, "Just quit, give us someone better."

So yeah, it's a well-founded idea, but sure has a lot that would have to be worked out before it could possibly be realistic.


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hyunwoo

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Recruiter

09-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exploding Barrel View Post

- Does this promote toxic behavior? I can see it adding a reason for bullying a bad player, "Just quit, give us someone better."

So yeah, it's a well-founded idea, but sure has a lot that would have to be worked out before it could possibly be realistic.
I agree with everything you said, especially the part I quoted.
Not only could people be bullying a player, but a troll or toxic player could actually join, and instead of having an afk, you'd be having a detrimental feeder on your team, making matters far worse than they should be.


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Rlot Suxxx Balls

Junior Member

09-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exploding Barrel View Post
Seems like there are a few pretty big problems they'd have to work out for this to be feasible. Off the top of my head:

- What champion does the new player play? Do they choose knowing what's already in the game? That would be pretty unfair for counterpick opportunities, etc. But how do you make sure they don't pick a champ already in the game without giving them that info?

- How do you make sure the new player brings a champ that fills the missing role (assuming it's early game)?

- How much gold do you give them? A support would typically have a fraction of the gold at, say, the 10 minute mark that an AD carry would. I think for there to be a good ballpark gold amount awarded the system would have to know their role, but currently system-recognized roles isn't a thing. And can a typical player assess the opponents, allies, all other players' builds, game timer, and all the other factors of an intelligent build effectively in a short time all at once?

- Is it reasonable to expect a team to catch up a new player on what's going on and what tactics are being used, whether someone's already building aegis, who's being focused, etc etc mid-game? Or will everyone just be frustrated because the new person has no idea what's going on and that leads to poor play?

- How will people be incentivized to do this? I assume it would be a separate queue? Personally the idea of dropping in random games in progress does not sound fun to me at all.

- Does this promote toxic behavior? I can see it adding a reason for bullying a bad player, "Just quit, give us someone better."

So yeah, it's a well-founded idea, but sure has a lot that would have to be worked out before it could possibly be realistic.
Good feedback for once. Now come up with some ideas how to make it work and we're there!

For example...

If a game has a leaver, the players on the crippled team could surrender before 20 (a good suggestion earlier in this post) if agreed upon by the majority(3). If vote for surrender fails, a PINCH HITTER is automatically called in. As an incentive to play the game out/not surrender, bonus IP could be rewarded for calling a PINCH HITTER as opposed to losing additional IP (or all IP) for surrendering. If they did vote for a pinch hitter, a little window on the right would pop up (like the surrender thing) , and they would then select the role needed.

What is a PINCH HITTER?

The PINCH HITTER is a player who joins a special queue for the sole purpose of filling an empty/leaver slot. This PINCH HITTER would see the role requested, and then have the option of accepting the game invite or not. Again, as an incentive, they could receive additional IP for agreeing, and playing the game out. They could also possibly receive a penalty for not joining the game. Nothing too serious, but enough to motivate them to accept more often than decline. Maybe a cool down on rejoining the PINCH HITTER queue, or something like that. Or maybe even REQUIRE the PINCH HITTER to use a simple role selector with all the recognized roles (jungle/support/tank/ADC/APM/top/etc) to chose from, and allow them to select as many as they wish (minimum 1). Maybe even give the PINCH HITTER additional IP for each additional role selected beyond the first to incentivise being more capable of filling a missing role! Presto! New player INC!

Of course, these are all just rough ideas, but I really think there is amazing potential here. Also, take notice of the general theme of rewards/incentives (both for the crippled team members sticking it out, and the PINCH HITTER jumping in to make it a game again) for PLAYING and NOT QUITTING. The goal here is to PLAY the game, NOT QUIT, right?

Need more feedback! Feed the feedback monster!


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