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Rengar, The Pridestalker

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Kandehbar

Senior Member

09-11-2012

Well from playing against and as Rengar it seems that his role late game seems to be quite mixed and confusing for his kit type. He seems like he wants to be dps since his Q gives him attack speed in addition to his damage boost and his Roar lets him stay in the fray for a bit longer.

The problem is that after mid game ends unless he has a high number of kills he scales off TERRIBLY late game. Im gonna go into his strengths and how we can help him be a better character

-------Ferocity - The ferocity mechanic allows rengar to dominate early game pretty decently while lanning against so some of the popular champs and his sustain and durability is actually quite decent.

In the jungle he has a pretty decent speed with average jungle runes but the can be increased substantially with the right set of runes.

--------Leap Gimmick. This is actually alot better then people reallize. Rengar is able to capitalize on this passive very well during post lvl 6 and through mid game. Late game its a situational passive that gives him small control of your buffs and dragon. (teleport with top lane or mid lane rengar is pretty amazing when you ward bushes.)

The problem with this passive is that in late game your gonna use it mainly when your ult is activated. Since his ult doesn't give him any extra damage or cc effects once you reveal yourself, you have a good chance of dying VERY quickly if there not idiots. This fact make you inclined to build with a good amount of durablity which then hamperd your instant carry kill powers which is what assassins HAVE to do to help your team the best you can do is divert focus for a little while you helplessly died since your only escape was used as your initiation.

A good character to compare rengar too is irela. There roles are very identical but she does her job infinitely better. She can SCATTER the positioning of a team with her ult

These Suggestions will capitalize on rengars mixed role as a bruiser/assassin = HUNTER

--------Bola Strike - with max Ferocity the root should be increased by a short duration AND it should be able to chain slow up to two extra champs. With this buff he will have a bit stronger cc and be able to allow your team to move the enemy out of position easier.

---------Thrill of the hunt. Ok this isn't a bad ult at all, its just that rengar DEPENDS on this ult to make anything happen late game.

-->Passive abillity that lets you generate half the ferocity your normally would when the ult is active
-->while thrill of the hunt is active your next auto attack will gain 100 percent critical strike chance.
*********** This is the most important buff. When you leap while thrill of the hunt is active you will TERRIFY enemies around them for 2 seconds.


Ill give the reasoning behind that idea with a scenario in the real wild.
A lion is stalking his prey who is amongst a group of gazelles, the lion lunges at the weak gazelle killing it. By NATURAL instinct the other gazelle flee terrified by the lion and for their live. In reality if those gazelles grouped up, they could easily kill that lion, BUT there naturall SURVIVAL instinct forced them to flee.

In game, when a rengar assassinates a target among their allies, there first reaction is, "this mutha lover just killed my boy and expects to get out alive? THE F#$K WAS YOU THANKIN" and then attempt to rape your face for having the audacity to kill their friend on their watch. With terrify not only can you do that for free, you can definitely butter another target up to be baked too.

And with that a make this post

P.S. --------Better buff fiora


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TerminatusOmega

Senior Member

09-11-2012

Bump, i like your ideas. He definitely needs some slight buffs or something to make him better viable late game.... asides from the AP builds.


I use him like a Berserker/Assassin, go in and gank their squishies and try to get out.... 6/10 I'll usually end up dead but I would take on 1-2 targets or weaken them enough for my team to mop up.
He's rather squishy himself so its an all or nothing type of deal.

I do like Rengar' ALOT and have been playing him since I bought him.
People are more afraid of bushes and try to ward more. If they see a good Rengar on the field, their squishies tend to not over extend as much...unless they like dying.
He is whats needed in the normal games to make it a bit fresh. People are afraid of him when they are spread out and low health. Its like a warwick but better- if you are found under his ult, and you got low HP... bet your azzz you're gonna die.


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Renzor

Member

09-11-2012

I want to throw something out there.

I discovered the way I had been playing rengar all this time has been gimping him. Yesterday i realized something that changed the way I play him forever, and then proceeded to go on a 6 game "Legendary" win streak (it would have been 7 but the last game my team decided to get cocky and throw repeatedly).

Anyways, the big change is that you only get rank 1 of of his Q and level it LAST. You should focus on leveling Bola strike first and then his shout.

Why?
Because of the ways his abilities level as you rank them up.
First of all, by ranking up his E and then W first, you dramatically lower the cooldown on them thus being able to keep ferocity much much more often.
Also, his Bola Strike is like a super poke ability for top lane (people literally start whining "OMG WHY IS YOUR BOLA HITTING SO HARD?", forcing the enemy to have to return to base constantly as well as being unable to get close to you. THink of it as Kat's bouncing blade but with a a lower cooldown and better slow/root.

His Q always gets the same bonuses from items regardless of the rank, the only thing that changes is the base damage and the attack speed bonus after using it. The attack speed bonus is really only useful for tower pushing, because if you try to take advantage fo the attack speed in a team fight or gank then you run the common risk of getting killed immedietly.


When you have full ferocity and going for a gank, only use your Q if you are 100% sure you will get a kill. It will still do a ton of nuke damage even though it's only rank 1. Otherwise use a Bola in order to keep the guy rooted and then slowed for a long time. Use your shout everytime you are not at full health.

I'm not a math expert and I don't have the numbers on his ability memorized, but I'm telling you to try it out. It was literally night and day for me. I don't know how many times in the past I had my Q up and being unable to close in because the guy is outrunning me, but now with Bola maxed and the Shout nobody gets away, I constantly give myself full hp, and I am a gank fiend.



.....he still sucks very late game though, but you can win games in 20-30 minutes with this super aggression build. Also I'm in the 1200-1300s elo range, and I'll probably start rising past that as I was literally steam rolling every enemy team last night.


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Kandehbar

Senior Member

09-11-2012

these are all interresting thoughts lets continue the discussion


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Kandehbar

Senior Member

09-12-2012

Shameless bump


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DragonHeartxxx

Senior Member

09-12-2012

very interesting renzor may have to try that strategy


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Kandehbar

Senior Member

09-13-2012

Shameless bump


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Macguffin

Recruiter

09-13-2012

Riot says that they have a lot of metrics on how they design champions. Rengar started off with a much higher damaging Q and had it nerfed because apparently only shaco is allowed to kill people if they walk into a brush. This damage was not put into any other of his skills, this is the first problem area. The damage on his W (and change it to AD scaling) and E need to be raised just a bit so that his whole kit can be used to pump out damage.

Second, he has a number of bugs and just horrible design that mess up his viability. His attack speed buff not affecting his auto attacks until after his next one, the bad joke that is his W's defensive 'steroid' duration, the W not being affected by CDR. And several other bugs and problems (low base stats, horrible optional item, a character model that's clunkier than max stack cho).

I'm pretty sure everyone can finally admit the problem. The resource system. Ferocity, or at least the double hit capability of the skill, is a foolish design concept. If you give a champ the possibility to do something, they must be balanced that the possibility occurs. This is why his Q got nerfed, double hitting on it at level 1 was simply to harsh. A much better idea for the system would be to not allow the double stack of a skill and instead simply give Rengar better abilities that gain more useful utility. Longer duration on his slow and longer range, Longer duration on his W defensive buff, and Q's original damage scaling. In the end, as long as the Ferocity system allows champs to double hit with a skill, those skills are just going to be to weak when they aren't being used as such.


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Kandehbar

Senior Member

09-13-2012

Quote:
Macguffin:
Riot says that they have a lot of metrics on how they design champions. Rengar started off with a much higher damaging Q and had it nerfed because apparently only shaco is allowed to kill people if they walk into a brush. This damage was not put into any other of his skills, this is the first problem area. The damage on his W (and change it to AD scaling) and E need to be raised just a bit so that his whole kit can be used to pump out damage.

Second, he has a number of bugs and just horrible design that mess up his viability. His attack speed buff not affecting his auto attacks until after his next one, the bad joke that is his W's defensive 'steroid' duration, the W not being affected by CDR. And several other bugs and problems (low base stats, horrible optional item, a character model that's clunkier than max stack cho).

I'm pretty sure everyone can finally admit the problem. The resource system. Ferocity, or at least the double hit capability of the skill, is a foolish design concept. If you give a champ the possibility to do something, they must be balanced that the possibility occurs. This is why his Q got nerfed, double hitting on it at level 1 was simply to harsh. A much better idea for the system would be to not allow the double stack of a skill and instead simply give Rengar better abilities that gain more useful utility. Longer duration on his slow and longer range, Longer duration on his W defensive buff, and Q's original damage scaling. In the end, as long as the Ferocity system allows champs to double hit with a skill, those skills are just going to be to weak when they aren't being used as such.


Very very good points.

P.S better buff fiora
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2545307


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Menkhor

Senior Member

09-13-2012

Decent post, but...

Quote:
A lion is stalking his prey who is amongst a group of gazelles, the lion lunges at the weak gazelle killing it. By NATURAL instinct the other gazelle flee terrified by the lion and for their live. In reality if those gazelles grouped up, they could easily kill that lion, BUT there naturall SURVIVAL instinct forced them to flee.


I lol'd pretty hard.


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