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Female Objectification in LoL: A Rational Response

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Waafu

Senior Member

09-06-2012

Quote:
Bekkal:
The fact that sites like Jezebel exist proves that no amount of reason can sway a die-hard "feminist" that maybe they are just taking things out of context or acting absurd. Also, they aren't real feminists, but try telling them that and see what happens.

Some people just need to feel like victims.

And this has to do with LoL and this topic how?


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chumbler

Senior Member

09-06-2012

Quote:
CorporateCommand:
I just wish women had more variety then men. I mean, an old woman doesn't have to be unattractive, I've made comments on Sindel from Mortal Kombat still being hot, but old. Not to mention most of the women in LoL look like you can snap them in half over your knee.


Something that persistently pops up in these discussions is the thought that non-standard female (and male, to a lesser degree) characters have to still be attractive or hot. They don't. The sooner designers get away from that, the better. People generally care less about whether a character is attractive than that the character is cool in some way. That's not to say that attractive characters are by default bad and they should never be made again and every female champion needs to wear a burqa from now until the end of time, which is the inevitable strawman. What I'm saying is that if Riot made a ripped, battle scarred woman with one arm who punched the **** out of things, that would be fantastic. Or a heavily armored tank (Leona is not heavily armored except in her defender skin). Or an old crone witch (think of the old woman from Snow White here). Or a witch like Maleficent. None of those examples are hot or physically attractive*, but they are great character designs, and LoL and most video games (I know HoN has the wretched hag, so good on it) have as yet made zero use of things like that. Basically, where are the female equivalents of Singed, Zilean, Darius, etc.?

The other issue is details added to skins or designs for sexualization purposes where it is unwarranted or at worst completely out of place, but I won't deal with that for now.

*I know that there is always someone out there for whatever you can think of that finds it attractive, but I was speaking in general.

vvvv Don't forget the heels in every Leona skin. A tank. With heels. I'm not personally a huge fan of Iron Solari Leona, but not for any male gaze reasons. I just don't really find it that interesting. I'm a big fan of defender Leona, though.


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MathMage

Senior Member

09-06-2012

Quote:
DeusExLamina:
If you'd read my post on page 2, you'll see my counterargument to what you said. Sejuani is a very athletic amazon/barbarian-type character, but women would only see her chest and say it's objectification. Leona and Diana are really good examples of female warriors and assassins done right. The only idealized *** partners released in the past 2 years that I could agree with you on are Leblanc and MF, and possibly Ahri. There are far more male champions that are like that.

I love Diana's skin layout. The default skin is fantastic, practical, makes her look competent, etc. There is a Male Gaze option, but you have to buy it.

But Leona? Is wearing a metal dress (how does she MOVE in that thing?) and a metal bikini. She doesn't have quite the same Male Gaze problem that other champs have, because at least she's wearing something, but as a basic matter of practical appearance Leona's skin is actually pretty bad. Iron Solari Leona, on the other hand, is excellent.


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Waafu

Senior Member

09-06-2012

Quote:
chumbler:
Something that persistently pops up in these discussions is the thought that non-standard female (and male, to a lesser degree) characters have to still be attractive or hot. They don't. The sooner designers get away from that, the better. People generally care less about whether a character is attractive than that the character is cool in some way. That's not to say that attractive characters are by default bad and they should never be made again and every female champion needs to wear a burqa from now until the end of time, which is the inevitable strawman. What I'm saying is that if Riot made a ripped, battle scarred woman with one arm who punched the **** out of things, that would be fantastic. Or a heavily armored tank (Leona is not heavily armored except in her defender skin). Or an old crone witch (think of the old woman from Snow White here). Or a witch like Maleficent. None of those examples are hot or physically attractive*, but they are great character designs, and LoL and most video games (I know HoN has the wretched hag, so good on it) have as yet made zero use of things like that. Basically, where are the female equivalents of Singed, Zilean, Darius, etc.?

/thread.
You summed it up perfectly.


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Bakraah

Senior Member

09-06-2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzpndHtdl9A


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DaisiesAndDukes

Senior Member

09-06-2012

Hmm...it is well-established what a male power fantasy involves.

Why don't we create a poll asking females in these forums what their power fantasies look like? When females go into day-dream land thinking about, "It'd be totally badass if I am/I can..." what exactly do they want? Is it really any different from the male power fantasies?

If there isn't much difference, then shouldn't male and female portrayals be similar ASSUMING that the game caters to both genders? Obvious if the game only heavily caters to one gender than the power fantasies of the other will be mostly ignored. This is what we're trying to figure out.


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Waafu

Senior Member

09-06-2012

Quote:
DaisiesAndDukes:
Hmm...it is well-established what a male power fantasy involves.

Why don't we create a poll asking females in these forums what their power fantasies look like? When females go into day-dream land thinking about, "It'd be totally badass if I am/I can..." what exactly do they want? Is it really any different from the male power fantasies?

If there isn't much difference, then shouldn't male and female portrayals be similar ASSUMING that the game caters to both genders? Obvious if the game only heavily caters to one gender than the power fantasies of the other will be mostly ignored. This is what we're trying to figure out.

I want to be Riven and have sexual relations with Xin Zhao!


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Exman33

Senior Member

09-06-2012

So sick and tired of posts like these. Lets take a look at urgot (pre-nerf). He was rediculously strong so why didnt a lot of people play him? OH YEAH cuz he's ugly as fk. We're done here.


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DaisiesAndDukes

Senior Member

09-06-2012

Quote:
Waafu:
I want to be Riven and have sexual relations with Xin Zhao!
And what qualities of Riven make you go all "I want to be her!" and why do you think there aren't more Riven-like champs around in terms of looks? I personally think Riven is very well-done. I don't even mind her bunny skin because obviously she did it to infiltrate a strip club in order to assassinate someone so it's cool. Overall she exudes confidence and competence.


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chumbler

Senior Member

09-06-2012

^^^^ She is also a physically strong character, which is rare for female characters in video games.

Quote:
Exman33:
So sick and tired of posts like these. Lets take a look at urgot (pre-nerf). He was rediculously strong so why didnt a lot of people play him? OH YEAH cuz he's ugly as fk. We're done here.


If you're tired of these posts, why do you read them and post in them? Also is it completely impossible for you to consider that maybe a lot of people just don't like playing Urgot or aren't very good with him? I own him and think he's a cool champion, but I can't do a damn thing when I'm playing him. I doubt I'm alone in that regard.

We're not done here. You are. By your own admission you were done here before you even said anything.