Few words about Queue Dodge Timer

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OberonDark

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Senior Member

09-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpadeCA View Post
I was just thinking about the bolded part awhile ago.
Solution? Keep the queue dodge timer around the average time of a normal game (40-60 minutes)and add on additional time for multiple dodges in a given timeframe(12 hours).

This way, no one gets hurt for a emergency queue dodge and actual multiple game dodgers actually get punished.

Also, I think a IP queue dodge system should be implemented, as some dodgers have a separate account to switch to when they get a timer. Also Vice versa, the other account gets a timer, he switches back the first.
A match can range from 15-70 minutes, so 40-60 is a pretty random number.

I don't see the problem with dodging as it is. The first regular dodge is 5 minutes. That's fine. Then it's 15. You know you're pushing your luck but you made that choice. Idk what comes after that but it doesn't really matter anyway.

Ranked dodge is 30 minutes. You don't dodge ranked lightly. I don't even know what happens when you dodge it twice.

Honestly, there really aren't people who just sit around and dodge all day for no reason. It just doesn't happen.


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EnderWiggnz

Junior Member

09-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotKiddington View Post
We will continue adjust and improve the queue dodge system to make it better.

Feel free to share your opinions about the current queue dodge system. I will forward it to Yegg and Lyte.
The bigger problem that I have with the system is that there's no way to /kick a deserving ****** from champ select. when you have one guys screaming "give me XXX lane or i feed", chances are that you're going to have a bad game. it's obvious to the other 4 people in select, but one of those has to take the timeout or take your chances with the troll.

unfun.

maybe requiring 4/4 votes to kick someone during select? the down side is obvious though, the troll game would simply change to getting one person banned in select every time.

it's nice to see that the system has changed from losing elo when you dodge, to a straight time penalty, but it still doesn't account for one person deliberately ruining a game from champ select. it becomes a game of chicken or lose with the obvious troll.


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QuitePossibly

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Member

09-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotKiddington View Post
There are few people on this forum talks about the queue dodge penalty timer been either too long, or too short. I just want to give some reasons behind why queue dodge penalty timer is needed.

Long ago, we do not have any queue dodge control on any queues. The end result is that it takes more than half hour to get a game started. This is not ideal, because people can dodge for any reasons or no reasons and it take forever to start a game. This is a historical fact and it is not speculation. On the other end of the spectrum, it is speculated that if we put a queue dodge penalty of 200 years or so, no one will dodge (duh!). But of course Lyte believe that’s too extreme and it is crazy.

On the one end there is the lower limit of zero penalties and on the other end there is upper limit of some super long time penalties. The answer must be some time limit in between those two extremes that will achieve the most effective discouragement of queue dodging yet permit queue dodging under certain extreme situations. The reasoning is simple, we want to give people the ability to dodge only if it is absolutely necessary, or due to unforeseen technical difficulties; we want people try their best to follow the summoner’s code and try their best at the game; we want people to communicate with their teammates during champion selection; we also want people to be able to start a game quickly. That’s why we put in a time limit that game design believe it is optimal to allow dodge under certain conditions at a cost that will make people think their actions before dodging and to prevent certain (known) abuse.

It is an act of balance. If there is a need for queue dodging for whatever reason(s), it also must be balanced between the interest of the queue dodger and rest of the players who do not want to dodge. The system must also designed to prevent abuse of many types. Game designer Yegg will be working on the design to improve the queue dodge controls in the near future. We will continue adjust and improve the queue dodge system to make it better.

Feel free to share your opinions about the current queue dodge system. I will forward it to Yegg and Lyte.
My issue is somewhat related. Why is there no penalty for declining or waiting out a queue during the initial process of filling up the game room. While this was a much more obnoxious practice while playing a lower level account, as the overall pool of players is smaller it took 8-10 attempts to get a game full. If you deny or timeout the initial filling of the game it seems only logical that there would be a brief timeout associated with that as well. In its current state, you can decline a game and immediately queue for a new one, ad nauseam.

Thanks!


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Grey Wolf

Senior Member

09-05-2012

The change to a timer was great, in my opinion. I am in the deepest depths of ELO hell and many players here are either clueless, or just don't care. Many times I had games where we had 2 mid champions, or two AD carries (because no one wanted to play support) or the old "top or I feed" call. Champion picking in Ranked solo queue is, as has been pointed out by other Rioters, the most toxic aspect of your game. Before, I had to choose between playing a frustrating game for 30 - 40 minutes, and probably losing 11-13 ELO, or dodging and losing 5 minutes and 10 ELO. Now, I can choose to leave these games and only suffer a short (30 minutes) penalty.

As a consequence, however, I made a second account to play while my main is locked out of games. You can't even play versus AI while you wait to play Ranked again. I am not sure that is what Riot wants, for everyone to have smurf accounts. I think it has been suggested before but maybe make the dodge timer specific to the type of queue you dodged.


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ZallKlos

Senior Member

09-05-2012

Why was the queue dodge penalty for Dominion draft removed? It's unplayable, there is nobody in queue.


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CarlSagansCosmos

Senior Member

09-05-2012

I'd like too see the ability to disband a group before a game starts if 3 or 4 people vote in favor of dropping the game. Allow an across the board maybe 5 minute penalty for everyone (nothing harsh, but something to ensure they will not be teamed together). Moments like this include having 2 people who play primary support, someone who at the start of the game is just rude "Mid or I dodge"

You can also use these stats to see if certain players are causing problems by seeing on average who is in a team that gets disbanded most.


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RiotKiddington

Platform Engineer

09-05-2012
2 of 5 Riot Posts

There are few concerns with some sort of “dodge forgiveness” or “free dodge of the day”. If we give out flat one free dodge per day (or something of similar concept) per player then the end result will not be pleasing for our players. I think the best analogy is printing money cause inflation. If we give out one free dodge per day per player, then there will be millions of free dodge pass floating around. Since no champion selection can be dodged twice or dodged concurrently, there will be millions of champion selection dodged and millions of player impacted regardless the cause of the individual dodge. Most of you actually have the intention of playing a game, but if we are giving a free dodge to you then we are also giving a free dodge to people around you. When the time comes that you do actually want to start the game, you may find yourself on the receiving end of someone else’s dodge. “Millions of free dodge” is a scary thing to me.

Then the question becomes, can we create a queue dodge configuration (or control) that’s smarter, more intelligent, or more selective. Well, that’s what this discussion is for. Thinking about the queue dodge design, it is like picking the “lesser of two evils”, but there are many more factors need to be considered than just pick one out of two.


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RiotKiddington

Platform Engineer

09-05-2012
3 of 5 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZallKlos View Post
Why was the queue dodge penalty for Dominion draft removed? It's unplayable, there is nobody in queue.
I think the current situation with Dominion queue dodge control is the perfect demonstration of the effect when queue dodge control does not exist and queue dodge is free. This is not our intention, and it is a bug that Riot need to address. I will look into the issue when I have the time.


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Interceptor402

Senior Member

09-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotKiddington View Post
There are few concerns with some sort of “dodge forgiveness” or “free dodge of the day”. If we give out flat one free dodge per day (or something of similar concept) per player then the end result will not be pleasing for our players. I think the best analogy is printing money cause inflation. If we give out one free dodge per day per player, then there will be millions of free dodge pass floating around. Since no champion selection can be dodged twice or dodged concurrently, there will be millions of champion selection dodged and millions of player impacted regardless the cause of the individual dodge. Most of you actually have the intention of playing a game, but if we are giving a free dodge to you then we are also giving a free dodge to people around you. When the time comes that you do actually want to start the game, you may find yourself on the receiving end of someone else’s dodge. “Millions of free dodge” is a scary thing to me.
Make it so that your "free" dodge isn't free: costs you your FWotD bonus, or tomorrow's if today's is already gone. This is something that's not time-based, and also doesn't undermine your ranking system like elo loss did, but is still something that people will want to avoid if possible, to keep them from pulling the trigger. Combine it with a consecutive games played without dodge/disconnect IP bonus, like the one that we used to have in 2010.


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naotasan

Senior Member

09-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotKiddington View Post
This is not our intention, and it is a bug that Riot need to address. I will look into the issue when I have the time.
Thats what the last Riot employee said 5 months ago...