Something needs to be done about Kassadin and Pantheon

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Atahl

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09-04-2012

These two champions are so utterly imbalanced in dominion that playing with or against one, it doesn't matter, it makes the game unfun. If you have a pantheon on your team who can operate a keyboard, he's going to go positive. It's impossible to do poorly as pantheon. Heavy AD burst, little AD commitment required (he can build tanky and it still works) A huge teleport, a built in point and click CC. He's the complete package, but what really makes him stupid...

His passive. If you remember in the initial release of dominion, they removed banshee's veil because smaller skirmishes made it much harder to pop the bveil, and one missed spell turned the whole fight around. Well, his passive does that, to auto attacks. And it refreshes every time he bursts, and every time he stuns. A good pantheon will block three auto attacks and do 2k burst damage, meaning if you aren't able to survive that initial salvo, you're dead. AD champs can't burst him back, he blocks their attacks. AP champs are squishy and die instantly. And even if you manage to burst first, he can build frozen mallet + maw and still deal obscene damage. In a playlist that already favors assassins and tanky dps over carries, it's nearly inexcusable to leave such a broken champion alone. I hear the phrase "An enemy is dominating" EVERY SINGLE GAME with an enemy pantheon. Doesnt matter what he makes, the kit is overpowered.

Now onto Kass. Where to start. Unlimited blinks for mobility, tons of burst. His kit is strong, for sure. But what bothers me is he is even more idiot proof than Pantheon. I've seen Tank kassadin out dps tons of enemy champions. Tank, Ap, Tanky AP, AD, On hit... you can build any set of items on Kassadin and carry your team. Something needs to be done - be it nerfing his base damages to the ground and buffing his AP ratios to compensate, or just nerfing his blink range, something must be done.

And no, this wasn't a case of "LOL OP LOST TO KASS/PANTH". This isn't some isolated incident. This happens many, many times over the course of a night of play. They have pantheon? Welp, I'm not a tank/tanky dps, I'm going to die 20+ times before I can do anything. Pantheon on my team? "Welp, I don't matter, pantheon is going to carry."

Same with kass. This **** has to stop, at any cost.


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FDru

Senior Member

09-04-2012

I motion to ban anyone from the forum who refers to Dominion as a "playlist".


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DiscworldDeath

Senior Member

09-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atahl View Post
If you remember in the initial release of dominion, they removed banshee's veil because smaller skirmishes made it much harder to pop the bveil, and one missed spell turned the whole fight around.
Quite the opposite. There wasn't enough time for it to reset. People popped it and then it did nothing for way too long. You couldn't really retreat till it was back up.


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DiscworldDeath

Senior Member

09-04-2012

Also, you played Tristana, you had no tanks on your team. Enemy team had Pantheon, Maokai, Kassadin, Nocturne.

Of course you got bursted like a squishy...

Also, I see you building full glass cannon in every game of your last ten games. Armour works. And Pantheon doesn't burst for 2k unless he ults right on top of you, and you have 0 resistances, which you had.

Pantheon has high bases on his E and R. But his real kick is in his ratios. If he builds full tank he doesn't do much damage.

Edit:

Quote:
And no, this wasn't a case of "LOL OP LOST TO KASS/PANTH". This isn't some isolated incident. This happens many, many times over the course of a night of play. They have pantheon? Welp, I'm not a tank/tanky dps, I'm going to die 20+ times before I can do anything. Pantheon on my team? "Welp, I don't matter, pantheon is going to carry."
You seem to have faced Kassadin twice tonight, and Pantheon once (once in the same game). And you lost. I don't see them in other games you've played tonight.

Finally, I've seen plenty of people fail with Kassadin, or do "well", but still pretty poorly in comparison. He doesn't really out-dps people, mostly bursts and escapes with a sliver of health only to do so again.


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Atahl

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09-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscworldDeath View Post
Also, you played Tristana, you had no tanks on your team. Enemy team had Pantheon, Maokai, Kassadin, Nocturne.

Of course you got bursted like a squishy...

Also, I see you building full glass cannon in every game of your last ten games. Armour works. And Pantheon doesn't burst for 2k unless he ults right on top of you, and you have 0 resistances, which you had.

Pantheon has high bases on his E and R. But his real kick is in his ratios. If he builds full tank he doesn't do much damage.

Edit:


You seem to have faced Kassadin twice tonight, and Pantheon once (once in the same game). And you lost. I don't see them in other games you've played tonight.

Finally, I've seen plenty of people fail with Kassadin, or do "well", but still pretty poorly in comparison. He doesn't really out-dps people, mostly bursts and escapes with a sliver of health only to do so again.
I'm talking over the long term. It wasn't just tonight (though tonight did reignite my burning hatred for them both)

I have a long history of begging for pantheon nerfs. Too bad rioters never check the dominion subforum, much less care about dominion.


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WaterD103

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Senior Member

09-04-2012

Kassadin is broken probably. Pantheon? I think it's overrated. But if anything makes it overpowred (which i don't think it is) it's revive.


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Veni13

Senior Member

09-04-2012

Oh, hey, you again. You do realize that not only did you have a **** team comp, but your teammates weren't the brightest either. A good Kassadin player is pretty scary, but if his team sucks, his influence on the game is greatly minimized. And Panth, well, Kong is arguably more "OP."


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naotasan

Senior Member

09-04-2012

Panth is a strong choice, correct, but he's not that bad. I'd much rather fight a Panth over Darius any day.


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Degnared

Senior Member

09-04-2012

My experience since Dominion came out is that Panth is a low elo stomper and Kass is just broken. Pantheon is a solid pick no matter your skill level, but he's manageable at mid-high elo. Definitely not stronger than Darius or the new Xin in my opinion. People have mentioned your glass builds, which tells me that you're not super experienced at Dominion yet. Build defense, and manage CC. Panth is incredibly strong early game, and that ult can win games, but he definitely falls off as the game goes on.

Kass, on the other hand... if you know how to build him, your team should win. End of story.


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Warrrrax

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Senior Member

09-04-2012

It is not gonna happen. SR always has been and always will be the main map of LoL. The others are BONUSES only, and don't even exist in DOTA, DOTA2, HON, and all the other variants.

Champs are balanced mostly based on SR. Panth and Kass are both ok on SR at the moment so they are gonna stay that way. Ditto with Jax, Yorick, JAYCE, etc.


I'd recommend you simply accept that some champs are better on Dominion. If you want to play EZ-mode, take Jayce, Kass, Panth, Jax, etc. If you want medium mode, take Nunu, Blitz, Cassiopea, Katarina, etc. Hard mode: Karma.

You might also consider team balancing. If your team instalocks Darius, Panth, Jax, then maybe consider taking a crappy champ to compensate. Or if your team takes Nidalee, Teemo, Karma, then you probalby outta consider Yorick for bot.


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