Smiteless Jungle.

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ChodusMinimus

Member

09-02-2012

... Looking at your LoLking, your builds are whack and you get carried.
I don't want to suck on the meta's ****, but tanky DPS junglers are what I like. It's hard to fight when you have an unkillable Jax and WW in the middle of your team with a fragile Yi who can't do any damage because of Randuin's Omen and Exhaust.
Same with Trynd...
Wukong and Nocturne do the same thing, though Wukong is awkward and needs a slight buff in my opinion, but that's neither here nor there.
Soon as I get my computer, you can come at me bro and we'll do a custom game of 5s.


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Treza

Senior Member

09-02-2012

if you jungle without smite your clear times are too low and youll fall behind. thats all there is to it
and thats not even mentioning the potential of having your dragons/barons taken away. sure steal attempts are usually unsuccessful as is, but why would you want to increase the chances of having it stolen?


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juggernaturface

Junior Member

09-02-2012

Yeah exactly, YI doesn't really need a smite. Another really good jungler that doesn't need smite is Shaco. His w helps him at the beginning of the match to get the red/blue (which ever you prefer) really easy and you don't really need a leash. I honestly never played shaco jungle but I really should.


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ChodusMinimus

Member

09-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Is Whoa View Post
@chodus

You are out of your mind if you think you are going to win a fight against tryn with exhaust ignite when you have flash smite as ww. Carry junglers are less junglers and more roamers. Their game depends on their ganks. Tryn yi fiora are gonna clear the jungle very fast (via alpha strike,crits,and immense AS). So the argument of meditate taking time is just silly. If they get their ganks off well this works extremely well.
This is about the early game.
Warwick has too much sustain for anyone to be a threat to him in the jungle, so he can readily go and rape them.
I also carry Exhaust in games with friends, so that means he's dead. Just. Dead. Until late game, WW will shut down Tryndamere hard. Even assuming a 1v1 in his jungle at level 2 at red buff, WW will win.
AND if I happen to have Exhaust, I'll probably have a friend playing top... Who will come with me and kill you.
Trynd's clear speed is meh, Fiora's is meh, Yi's is meh, and they all have poor sustain. While Warwick's clear speed is on par with theirs, his sustain is better than any other jungler except maybe Nunu.
All of the junglers you mention all have poor ganks. Trynd has a situational slow, Yi has Alpha Strike, Fiora has a double gap-closer... Pre-6...
Warwick, Nocturne, and Udyr will all defeat them for various reasons.


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Treza

Senior Member

09-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChodusMinimus View Post
... Looking at your LoLking, your builds are whack and you get carried.
also this.. you havent had a single strong performance in your last 10 matches and have either completely lost the game for your team, or held them back from steamrolling what was an obviously incompetent enemy team


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NineTailedFiend

Junior Member

09-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treza View Post
also this.. you havent had a single strong performance in your last 10 matches and have either completely lost the game for your team, or held them back from steamrolling what was an obviously incompetent enemy team
That referring to me? I've been trying new things but tempted to return to my mains. Screwing around with Yi at solo top or having to pose as a specific undesirable role thanks to autolockers. x_x


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ragnaraq

Senior Member

09-02-2012

His match history may not be the greatest, but still he has some good points.


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NineTailedFiend

Junior Member

09-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ragnaraq View Post
His match history may not be the greatest, but still he has some good points.
Im ~very~ tempted to fix that right now. Thinking Im gonna do 10 matches as smite-less Tryndamere and let the scores show it all. Sleep deprivation or not, I wanna prove some points the hard way. XD


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Sam Is Whoa

Senior Member

09-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChodusMinimus View Post
This is about the early game.
Warwick has too much sustain for anyone to be a threat to him in the jungle, so he can readily go and rape them.
I also carry Exhaust in games with friends, so that means he's dead. Just. Dead. Until late game, WW will shut down Tryndamere hard. Even assuming a 1v1 in his jungle at level 2 at red buff, WW will win.
AND if I happen to have Exhaust, I'll probably have a friend playing top... Who will come with me and kill you.
Trynd's clear speed is meh, Fiora's is meh, Yi's is meh, and they all have poor sustain. While Warwick's clear speed is on par with theirs, his sustain is better than any other jungler except maybe Nunu.
All of the junglers you mention all have poor ganks. Trynd has a situational slow, Yi has Alpha Strike, Fiora has a double gap-closer... Pre-6...
Warwick, Nocturne, and Udyr will all defeat them for various reasons.
You dont NEED cc to jungle gank. Lane ganks work with anyone rwgardless of cc. And junglers like the carrys do need specific team comps. If you had jax, annie, leona, ezreal there is enough cc there to pull off ganks in any lane. Yes ww will win a 1v1 lvl 2 but any good mid player and support will know this and back up his jungler on his first go through resulting in you never getting to 1v1.

This is all relative. WW ganks are less on par than yi fiora and tryn. WW relies on his lane partners to do most of the dmg and if there isnt cc in the lane they will most likely fail. Nocturne is the king of "wtf? Im getting ganked?" But he can also be shut down by exhaust randuins. Pre 6 is a pretty short span in which its easy to get help from your lanes if a jungler is spotted countering. A couple well placed wards by you and your team and your counter jungle experience is a nightmare.

Basically im just saying you and he have different play styles that all work regardless of elo lvl. His just happens to be more based on team comp and communication (which is hard to find in solo queue).


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ChodusMinimus

Member

09-02-2012

Warwick ganks are some of the strongest in the game, though. It isn't about the damage, it's about the unCleansable, unmitigated 1.8 second suppress. It's brainless and guaranteed, except against GP.
Goddamn oranges.
Yi, Fiora, and Trynd don't get strong ganks. If you pull Undying Rage and dive, you'll probably die to the turret. Fiora's ult is fairly decent, but gets her stuck under the turret as well, unless she initiates with it, which is stupid in itself. Yi is only good when fed, and junglers rarely get fed, and Yi's early game isn't good enough to get fed... Carry junglers have their perks, but relying on teammates and having to be squishy and in the middle of the fight overall weakens the team.
PLUS he gives his allies a free Recurve Bow. His post-6 ganks destroy, slightly lackluster before... Hence Exhaust.
Even in premades, I've never gotten babysat my whole way through the jungle. If I go on the offensive and counter-jungle, top or mid will come and help me from time to time, but they don't just stalk me on through.
Smiteless might work from time to time, but the problems are huge... it's why Smite is as prevalent as it is.


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