Smiteless Jungle.

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NineTailedFiend

Junior Member

09-02-2012

Just noticed the extreme differences in peoples' views on jungling without smite on specific characters. I'll sometimes jungle without smite as Master Yi, but I will ~always~ jungle without smite as Tryndamere. Using the same runepage and masteries for both (Heavyset AD with +15 armor), Yi can easily sustain himself with his Meditation, and Tryndamere's Consume Rage is quite spammable so long as you have enough health to engage anyways. Always starting the game with Vampiric Scepter helps considerably as well, especially for Tryn.

Now the whole point of this is... I find it hilarious as to how many people today alone has raged to see me play Tryndamere without smite, constantly saying "OH ITS STAPLE FOR STEALING DRAGON AND BARON, BRO". My thoughts? Go **** yourselves. Smite is indeed useful for that particular task, as well as taking on the Red/Blue buff givers early game. HOWEVER... It also, obviously, uses a spell slot. Smite is extremely limited in use, and I find its most frequent as best usage is for smiting Siege Minions after they have been upped from a busted inhib. That. Is. Absolutely. It.

This is exactly how I work my magic... Mastery in Ignite and Exhaust's bonus effect. Start with Wolves or Wraiths. Pop ignite immediately. Bam. Extra 5 AD right there on top of all other bonuses, starting with Consume for Tryndamere. The extra damage doesnt seem like a whole lot, but it makes early jungling exceptionally easy when you can plow through the wolves or wraiths at level 1 or 2 in under 10 seconds, as well as popping Consume Rage to get that health right back. My main argument here is... Despite having slight difficulty with stealing the Baron or Dragon, that extra spell slot for Exhaust works wonders when invading the enemy jungle. Sneak around a bit, hope you find them taking on the lesser golems or a buff source, pop exhaust, let them suffer a bit from it while you wallop on them.

THIS WORKS 100% WELL EVERY TIME (minus level 6+ if the enemy jungler is a Darius or something that has heavy true damage). My point here is... If you see someone say 'Jungle no smite' and it is not me, give them a damned chance because those hardpoints that give the early edge in the first 15 minutes of the game is most often what decides the win or loss outcome. If you cannot handle or understand that, then you're still levels under the best; nooblet.


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Candentis

Senior Member

09-02-2012

If you jungle without smite, you better have a skill like Evelynn's ultimate to steal baron or dragon. It's also hard to counterjungle if you cant save smite for the enemy red buff.


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NineTailedFiend

Junior Member

09-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Candentis View Post
If you jungle without smite, you better have a skill like Evelynn's ultimate to steal baron or dragon. It's also hard to counterjungle if you cant save smite for the enemy red buff.
Such is why I will ~always~ jungle without smite as Tryndamere. No questions. His w lowers attack of all enemy champs if you can catch them at Baron for a short duration, which also gives your team that much extra time to position themselves to either take the Baron, or just slaughter the enemy team so they can make little use of it. I also favor Tryndamere for smiteless jungling, as his Crits with a near full build deals 1000+ damage a hit with a high attack rate to boot. Many claim Tryndamere is easy to counter and is a rather pisspoor champ, but that is due to his straightforwardness. A surprise attack from a champ that hits incredibly hard will kill anyone in seconds unless they are super tanky. Why steal the red buff with smite when you whirl out of nowhere with a greatsword, let them smite or kill the Elder Lizard, then wipe your own ass with their face? You get that buff either way and a 'free kill' to boot.

Tryndamere was not inspired from Genghis Khan for no reason. ;3


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Ohasis

Senior Member

09-02-2012

You should always take Smite. By not having it you limit your ability to counter jungle, limit your ability to steal blue/dragon/red away from the enemy team, and a baron steal/secure could mean a win in the late game. I also feel like junglers should be securing kills for their team, not for themself.


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NineTailedFiend

Junior Member

09-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohasis View Post
You should always take Smite. By not having it you limit your ability to counter jungle, limit your ability to steal blue/dragon/red away from the enemy team, and a baron steal/secure could mean a win in the late game. I also feel like junglers should be securing kills for their team, not for themself.
All depends on the particular jungler. This is not the case for Malphite or Rammus, but those like Fiora, Yi, Tryndamere, etc. Im getting tired of all of these people saying left and right 'Its all about the counter jungle and stealing Baron and Dragon' because doing so, you LIMIT your own capabilities in other situations. The more flexibility and options you have whilst maintaining a key role gives much more of an edge for the win.

Think of it this way; keep the pressure on the enemy team, always making sure their jungler is too weak to succeed in doing their job so your team can push safely knowing they will not get blindsided. Also, when attempting to steal the Baron, it is a high risk/reward, and generally either way does not give the best outcome for a single steal. Sure, you can possibly nab it from them, but any smart team will immediately stun or slow you, then take you out right then and there. Boom. Instant 4v5 regardless of your team having Baron or not, a well coordinated push will end it right there.


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ChodusMinimus

Member

09-02-2012

This is only okay because you're playing against low skill players.
Yi and Trondomore are incredibly easy to play against in the jungle, and if you don't take Smite, I will laugh at you for a year when I steal your buffs and you try to fight me. If I see Trynd in draft, he's either top or jungle, but most often jungle for whatever reason. So I'll pick either a quick control jungler or a sustainable beast like Nunu or Warwick. In WW's case, I'll try and counterjungle you and force a duel. You won't win vs WW 1v1 in the jungle.
Meditate takes time out of your jungle speed, and speed is important for Yi since his ganks are incredibly lackluster.
Tryndamere is similar... His ganks are generally weak, even with red buff.
Smite is just the smart choice. Extra gold every minute, much quicker jungle, much safer jungle, better objective control.
Carrying from the jungle (as far as gold goes) is incredibly difficult to do... Income simply doesn't merit Tryndamere becoming as terrifying as possible. Same thing for Yi.
TL;DR
Smite is necessary for games with higher skill.


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NineTailedFiend

Junior Member

09-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChodusMinimus View Post
This is only okay because you're playing against low skill players.
Yi and Trondomore are incredibly easy to play against in the jungle, and if you don't take Smite, I will laugh at you for a year when I steal your buffs and you try to fight me. If I see Trynd in draft, he's either top or jungle, but most often jungle for whatever reason. So I'll pick either a quick control jungler or a sustainable beast like Nunu or Warwick. In WW's case, I'll try and counterjungle you and force a duel. You won't win vs WW 1v1 in the jungle.
Meditate takes time out of your jungle speed, and speed is important for Yi since his ganks are incredibly lackluster.
Tryndamere is similar... His ganks are generally weak, even with red buff.
Smite is just the smart choice. Extra gold every minute, much quicker jungle, much safer jungle, better objective control.
Carrying from the jungle (as far as gold goes) is incredibly difficult to do... Income simply doesn't merit Tryndamere becoming as terrifying as possible. Same thing for Yi.
TL;DR
Smite is necessary for games with higher skill.
Know what cutie? ;3

I'd absolutely love to accept your challenge and see how that goes for ya if I stuck with my own strategy while you play yours. So far every game I've played with my own preferences, I've rolled and hard.

Sometimes it's just best to be a hipster, because when others start talking you down and you end up snapping their necks with that big ole' VICTORY in the end screen, they feel kinda childish. ^_^


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Sam Is Whoa

Senior Member

09-02-2012

Jungling without smite does NOT severely limit you.

He is talking about not taking smite on carrys. This is not a bad thing but can lose you a dragon or baron in a bad spot. Tryn and yi can clear a camp extremely fast and if they get caught they can escape or destroy 1v1. These 2 champs you can go without smite but a madreds razer is recommended.

Also to the guy who said he shouldnt secure kills couldnt be more wrong. Yi,fiora, tryn, diana, fiddle. Are all carry champs that can make excellent use of kills and extra gold. Why should you neglect 1 carry for another. Whoever gets the kill can use the money you get gold for assists too.


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NineTailedFiend

Junior Member

09-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Is Whoa View Post
Jungling without smite does NOT severely limit you.

He is talking about not taking smite on carrys. This is not a bad thing but can lose you a dragon or baron in a bad spot. Tryn and yi can clear a camp extremely fast and if they get caught they can escape or destroy 1v1. These 2 champs you can go without smite but a madreds razer is recommended.

Also to the guy who said he shouldnt secure kills couldnt be more wrong. Yi,fiora, tryn, diana, fiddle. Are all carry champs that can make excellent use of kills and extra gold. Why should you neglect 1 carry for another. Whoever gets the kill can use the money you get gold for assists too.
My points pretty much exactly. I see smite as optional and when you are jungling as a rather straightfoward game changing champ, those sneak and/or fast ganks will make all the difference. Everyone knows just how brutal a well fed Fiora, Tryn, or Darius can be after some heavy jungling, and most smart players often /surrender to see such a powerful champ 5 or more kills ahead of everyone else.

Another reason as to why I love Tryn or Yi for such jungling once you have a hell of a start, just ~show up~ briefly in a team fight, and the enemy will back off slightly. When they think you're still around, sneak about to either rush in from the side, kill em all, or go have some backdoor fun.


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Sam Is Whoa

Senior Member

09-02-2012

@chodus

You are out of your mind if you think you are going to win a fight against tryn with exhaust ignite when you have flash smite as ww. Carry junglers are less junglers and more roamers. Their game depends on their ganks. Tryn yi fiora are gonna clear the jungle very fast (via alpha strike,crits,and immense AS). So the argument of meditate taking time is just silly. If they get their ganks off well this works extremely well.


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