Who counters Veigar on mid?

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Grollm

Senior Member

11-01-2012

And even with magic mitigation from banshees Veigars full combo will still hit hard. It really depends who gets fed first. Both are snowball late game champs


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Grollm

Senior Member

11-01-2012

And typically when you are trying to counter you don't pick an even match up, you pick someone who does better against that champ. That is unless you don't know how to play the counter


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

11-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grollm View Post
I disagree with some of the posters being as I play both Veigar and Ryze. Ryze doesn't counter Veigar but he will be on par with you. Veigars burst is faster and does more damage in a shorter period of time. If you can survive his first burst he's pretty much useless for about 10 seconds where you as Ryze can proceed to chunk him. But if he's a good Veigar he will run until he can land his w e q combo and f you lived through the first burst you are defintely dead this time. Veigar is very fragile and his only escape is also his only initiate. Play a gap closer like Fizz, Kat, or Swain and you will wreck him.
Your argument is that if Veigar is better than Ryze, Veigar will beat Ryze.

No one is denying that. No counter is so hard that the better player won't consistently win.


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Outlaw466

Senior Member

11-01-2012

Diana man... Diana and Katarina are unstoppable in middle lane.


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KROTANK

Senior Member

11-01-2012

Well, Kassadin is your go-to anti-ap caster in mid, so he of course works as a viable counter to veigar.

The real problem with veigar is if he can land his e, you're giving him a free opportunity to land his W, which completes his Q/R/DFG combo for an almost guaranteed instant kill. Take the W away, and you can usually scrape by even a Q>DFG>R combo alive. With your R you can easily flash out of Veig's E, but your real ally as kassadin is your Q. The silence and large damage give you ample opportunity to close in on veigar and burst him down before the silence wears off.

Other than kassadin, high mobility champions do very well against Veigar. Akali, Ahri, hell even Vlad do well against Veig.


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Grollm

Senior Member

11-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo View Post
Your argument is that if Veigar is better than Ryze, Veigar will beat Ryze.

No one is denying that. No counter is so hard that the better player won't consistently win.
Pogog I'm not saying that Veigar counters Ryze or vice versa. I'm saying that it's an even match up. A gap closer like Leblanc, Kat, Fizz, Diana, and Swain (not really a gap closer but has similar mechanics, but has a slow and better sustain than Veigar) are going to shut Veigar down. The whole thing about Veigar is shutting him down early game pre 6. If you let him farm his q and even give him one kill he has the potential to snowball and become a straight up monster who can pretty much 3 shot anyone on your team. But if your jungler ganks your mid is extremely aggressive he will never get to that point.


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PKMNTràinerRed

Member

11-01-2012

veigar can prettty much chunk anyone after he gets dfg and deathcap, what makes it more scarier is if he gets a void staff right after


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

11-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grollm View Post
Pogog I'm not saying that Veigar counters Ryze or vice versa. I'm saying that it's an even match up. A gap closer like Leblanc, Kat, Fizz, Diana, and Swain (not really a gap closer but has similar mechanics, but has a slow and better sustain than Veigar) are going to shut Veigar down. The whole thing about Veigar is shutting him down early game pre 6. If you let him farm his q and even give him one kill he has the potential to snowball and become a straight up monster who can pretty much 3 shot anyone on your team. But if your jungler ganks your mid is extremely aggressive he will never get to that point.
Don't you see how silly what you're saying is?

There's not a single counter in the game that's so strong that an unfed champ can handle a fed champ just because he's a counter.

If you let Ryze farm, he has the potential to snowball and become a straight up monster who can pretty much 3 shot anyone on your team (on top of being harder to kill than Veigar). But if the enemy jungler ganks that the enemy mid is extremely aggressive, Ryze may never get to that point.

Although, I'd counter and say that the way Ryze's abilities scale with mana and the fact that you're always building Tear of the Goddess first, Ryze has a better chance mid and late game than most other mids if they're starved and zoned.

The reason Ryze is such a strong counter to Veigar and why he works so well is because he makes Veigar's R useless. And Ryze does it while still giving your team an AP champion so the enemy team can't simply build armor.

Ryze may not zone Veigar out of mid lane, but Ryze is a strong counter to Veigar not necessarily because of what happens in laning phase. Ryze is a strong counter to Veigar because of what happens later in matches that involve these two champions. Ryze has an increased 5.25% win rate against Veigar.

What accounts for Ryze's increased win rate? It's not laning phase.

In a normal match, you take Diana, or whoever else you want to prop up as a strong counter to Veigar. And as Diana gets fed and builds strong and stronger, she is simultaneously making Veigar R more and more dangerous to herself.

Ryze, meanwhile, builds more and more mana. And he builds items that give him mana and defensive stats. Ryze becomes increasingly harder for Veigar to kill as the match goes on, meanwhile he starts dishing out tons of damage (and has great AoE damage) as the match goes on (not to mention, Ryze's ult adds SPELLVAMP to increase his survivability that much more).

There's not a single champion match up where one will consistently shut the other down match after match after match after match in the laning phase. But when you look toward mid and late game, where games are really won and lost, Ryze is basically the strongest imaginable counter to Veigar, 100% completely regardless of how laning phase went.


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JohntheMage

Senior Member

11-01-2012

Ryze.


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Fiveofswords

Senior Member

11-01-2012

merc treads kills veigar. doesnt matter what champ you play, jsut rush merc treads and you will win.