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Life Steal Vs Spell Vamp: The Great Debate

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tC Paulie

Senior Member

09-21-2010

So I guess stacking 5 revolvers plus zhonya's on Mal would be a bad idea?


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Helionexis

Senior Member

09-21-2010

like people have said, its not nearly as good as lifesteal. plain and simple fact is auto attacks are more consistant and dont have cooldowns. but saying its completely useless is silly. if you were to get spell vamp on morgana, will of the ancients brings her up to 50% vamp. think of hitting soul shackles on their entire team with it doing about 500 damage per hit, even if its only 33% for multi target spells thats 33% of 2500 per hit of soul shackle(which hits twice best case scenario). so do the math and 33% of 2500 is 825 health back, 1650 if you get their whole team with both hits. and for the record i have gotten an entire team stunned with soul shackle, though it is highly unlikely.

and if you get will of the ancients and spirit visage on someone like vlad, dear god thats a scary transfusion. ive seen people with around 2500 hp and level 5 transfusion get about 1/5 of their hp back in one shot.

of course, these two are some of the best candidates for it Other casters with high cooldowns dont benifit from spell vamp as much as those like morg, vlad, karthus, or ryze that have relatively short cooldowns.


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tC Paulie

Senior Member

09-21-2010

Malzahar has some pretty short CD's as well.


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Loerka

Member

09-21-2010

+1


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Noobmage2

Senior Member

09-21-2010

Quote:
Helionexis:
like people have said, its not nearly as good as lifesteal. plain and simple fact is auto attacks are more consistant and dont have cooldowns. but saying its completely useless is silly. if you were to get spell vamp on morgana, will of the ancients brings her up to 50% vamp. think of hitting soul shackles on their entire team with it doing about 500 damage per hit, even if its only 33% for multi target spells thats 33% of 2500 per hit of soul shackle(which hits twice best case scenario). so do the math and 33% of 2500 is 825 health back, 1650 if you get their whole team with both hits. and for the record i have gotten an entire team stunned with soul shackle, though it is highly unlikely.

and if you get will of the ancients and spirit visage on someone like vlad, dear god thats a scary transfusion. ive seen people with around 2500 hp and level 5 transfusion get about 1/5 of their hp back in one shot.

of course, these two are some of the best candidates for it Other casters with high cooldowns dont benifit from spell vamp as much as those like morg, vlad, karthus, or ryze that have relatively short cooldowns.


And in order to get those 1650 hp back (and only 550 due to Will Of The Ancients), you will have needed to deal 5K damages to the whole ennemy team and stun them while they are somehow kept in place by your team, in such a situation, I can assure you it's not the +550 hp from the WotA that won you the battle. In the most optimistic situation, you got around 1300 gold worth from the spell vamp. On the other hand, if we were to take a more realistic situation(meaning not a one-sided battle at your avantage), you would hope for barely half that (yes the ennemies also buy MR and don't stay packed for 5 seconds w8ting for your ulti to go off) which would mean barely 225hp or barely more than a ruby crystal. I noticed you only took examples with champions that already had 'natural' spell vamp, maybe it is because their spell vamp gave you the impression that the items were cost efficient but on Karthus (that I main), I can assure you it's never worth it and he's the nearest to what a dps caster is (short cooldowns and high damage output per seconds).


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Noobmage2

Senior Member

09-22-2010

I'm sorry I did a mistake on my last post (won't edit so everyone will know what mistake I'm talking about). In it, I assumed the poster I quoted was correct in his calculations and gave 510 hp leached from WotA with 5K total damage from Morgana's ulti but it's wrong. The last poster assumed 1/3 of spell vamp(aoe) from 100% spell vamp. It's incorrect, it should be 1/3 of 50% from 2500 which divides by 2 the result (255 hp leached for 5K damage dealt). The difference with the second calcul being due to approximations.

The direct calcul is 1/3 of 15% multiplied by the damage or 5% of the total damage. Assuming you dealt 5K damage to the ennemies, you will have gotten back 250 hp or the equivalent of around 664 gold worth of HP. And keep in mind it's in the best case situation, meaning you halved the ennemy's team hp and stunned them just to get back this hp. In a more realist situation, you would get around half that much hp (125HP) or just enough to pay for a doran's item.

TL;DR Spell vamp sux twice as much as I first thought.


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Comrade Morpheus

Senior Member

09-22-2010

Just throwing this out there, Morgana's passive gives true spell vamp that is not cut for AoE attacks.


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Krosan

Senior Member

09-22-2010

The bit that pisses me off is that a couple of champions who really, really need to proc lifesteal instead of spell vamp on their abilities (Urgot's Acid Hunter, Pantheon's Spearshot and HSS, though HSS should apply at a reduced rate) don't.

Hey, there's an idea for a new passive for Pantheon. "Pantheon gains spell vamp equivalent to 50-100% of his lifesteal."


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DarkCrown

Senior Member

09-22-2010

Spell vamp wont heal a mage in battle as effectively as life steal does for a phys DPS... Its just a sort of regen for mages that can spam nukes and get back little piece of HP but.. yeah its worthless


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Akrillo

Senior Member

09-22-2010

spell vamp needs to be increased in order to compensate for their long cooldowns as opposed to physicals .5 sec auto attacks 15% spell vamp isnt enough to make a difference while 15% lifesteal on a physical carry makes a massive difference it should be increased and i have just realised that the items for lifesteal have a higher percentage gg to whoever made the spell camp items have less % who actualy have cooldowns