Life Steal Vs Spell Vamp: The Great Debate

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Comrade Morpheus

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Senior Member

09-18-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimensionist View Post
What is this spell vamp you speak of again?
Spell Vamperism, the extra stat that Hextech Revolver, Hextech Gunblade, and Will of the Ancients has.

And does AoE spells cut Spell Vam[ to 1/2 or 1/3?


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Grinningsphinx

Senior Member

09-18-2010

yes it does..personally i think it was cut too much... 70% i can see but the way its implemented now.... is teh suck with spellsteal

Spell vamp is really pretty useless for its intended purpose which i had believed was to allow mages to jungle a little.

the life gains in the laning phase and during team fights are so minimal as to not make a difference.


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DeadXera

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Senior Member

09-18-2010

For those of you who dont believe in spellvamp, build Anivia with A WotA, Hextech Gunblade, Thornmail, Mejai's, Archstaff, and Void Staff (not in that order). You can tank nearly any AD champ so long as there are minions nearby, and the more your mejai's gets fed, the more people will want to end you.

To do the math for you: @ lvl 18 with these items, you will have roughly 300 AP, not including Mejai's stacks. Yes, this is lower than Pure AP builds which can go in excess of 700. That's of little consequence.

maxed out, her Ult deals 160 (+~70 due to AP) damage per second, for a total of 230 per second, and you're getting just under 30% of that back as health. (28% of 230= 62), so just with your Ult, you'll get 62 health per second, per UNIT. Meaning that if you catch say 6 minions and the enemy champ in your ult, you're getting (62x7=)434 health per second. That is only on your Ult. Now add in that your Frosbite will be dealing 175(+50% of 300=150), aka 325, x2 (aka 650) damage, which translates into (650 x .27 = ~175),and your Flashfrost, if you make sure to aim at your slowed opponent so that you hit them with the slow, then detonate it so that it stuns and hits them a second time (if you're even moderately decent with anivia, this is cake), you're dealing another 180(+150=320)x2 damage, or 640, healing you for another ~170.

TL;DR, Spellvamp is not UP, and the reason why is because unlike (most) physical attacks, Spells tend to hit multiple targets, and while its true most casters are bursty, to think they'll never take damage is very naive, and spellvamp allows them to stay on the battlefield longer without having to go back to base for HP. I've played many matches with my spellvamp anivia builds, and unlike most casters who have to go back to base whenever they have 10% hp or less, I simply push a lane and the first wave of minions I find puts me back to nearly full health.


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Comrade Morpheus

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09-18-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadXera View Post
For those of you who dont believe in spellvamp, build Anivia with A WotA, Hextech Gunblade, Thornmail, Mejai's, Archstaff, and Void Staff (not in that order). You can tank nearly any AD champ so long as there are minions nearby, and the more your mejai's gets fed, the more people will want to end you.
Okay, you just put an anti-DPS item, a stacking item, and a few AP items together and HOPE there are minions nearby to out-tank a DPS? Yeah... that doesn't seem to viable.

You calculated Spell Vamp without the cut-down for AoE spells. You get 28% from that build, meaning ~9 real Spell Vamp from your moves. That puts your 62 down to a low 20, probably down to 15 if you factor in MAGIC RESISTANCE. And the minions will last what, three seconds if at full HP? That is only ~270HP + whatever you get from the champion standing in it.

If frostbite hits the 6 minions for whatever damage, they are DEAD. No extra Spell Vamp from ult if you factor that it. Once again you forget to add in magic resistance and the spell vamp for multiple hits. That healing would probably be around a horrible 50.


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Dimensionist

Senior Member

09-18-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadXera View Post
For those of you who dont believe in spellvamp, build Anivia with A WotA, Hextech Gunblade, Thornmail, Mejai's, Archstaff, and Void Staff (not in that order). You can tank nearly any AD champ so long as there are minions nearby, and the more your mejai's gets fed, the more people will want to end you.

To do the math for you: @ lvl 18 with these items, you will have roughly 300 AP, not including Mejai's stacks. Yes, this is lower than Pure AP builds which can go in excess of 700. That's of little consequence.

maxed out, her Ult deals 160 (+~70 due to AP) damage per second, for a total of 230 per second, and you're getting just under 30% of that back as health. (28% of 230= 62), so just with your Ult, you'll get 62 health per second, per UNIT. Meaning that if you catch say 6 minions and the enemy champ in your ult, you're getting (62x7=)434 health per second. That is only on your Ult. Now add in that your Frosbite will be dealing 175(+50% of 300=150), aka 325, x2 (aka 650) damage, which translates into (650 x .27 = ~175),and your Flashfrost, if you make sure to aim at your slowed opponent so that you hit them with the slow, then detonate it so that it stuns and hits them a second time (if you're even moderately decent with anivia, this is cake), you're dealing another 180(+150=320)x2 damage, or 640, healing you for another ~170.

TL;DR, Spellvamp is not UP, and the reason why is because unlike (most) physical attacks, Spells tend to hit multiple targets, and while its true most casters are bursty, to think they'll never take damage is very naive, and spellvamp allows them to stay on the battlefield longer without having to go back to base for HP. I've played many matches with my spellvamp anivia builds, and unlike most casters who have to go back to base whenever they have 10% hp or less, I simply push a lane and the first wave of minions I find puts me back to nearly full health.
Good job on those boots... oh wait...

With that much gold... ANY champion can be built for epic deeps and survivability.

I also guarantee you that a master Yi or Tryndamere will completely decimate you with 2/3rds of the gold or even less required for your build...


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Grinningsphinx

Senior Member

09-18-2010

and you will be farmed over and over again because you will be moving at anivias crawling base move speed. GG!


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CG Uz

Senior Member

09-20-2010

i think will is a DECENT SIXTH item on Mordekasier

After FoN Sunfire x2 Abyssal and Boots........


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CG Uz

Senior Member

09-20-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadXera View Post
For those of you who dont believe in spellvamp, build Anivia with A WotA, Hextech Gunblade, Thornmail, Mejai's, Archstaff, and Void Staff (not in that order). You can tank nearly any AD champ so long as there are minions nearby, and the more your mejai's gets fed, the more people will want to end you.

To do the math for you: @ lvl 18 with these items, you will have roughly 300 AP, not including Mejai's stacks. Yes, this is lower than Pure AP builds which can go in excess of 700. That's of little consequence.

maxed out, her Ult deals 160 (+~70 due to AP) damage per second, for a total of 230 per second, and you're getting just under 30% of that back as health. (28% of 230= 62), so just with your Ult, you'll get 62 health per second, per UNIT. Meaning that if you catch say 6 minions and the enemy champ in your ult, you're getting (62x7=)434 health per second. That is only on your Ult. Now add in that your Frosbite will be dealing 175(+50% of 300=150), aka 325, x2 (aka 650) damage, which translates into (650 x .27 = ~175),and your Flashfrost, if you make sure to aim at your slowed opponent so that you hit them with the slow, then detonate it so that it stuns and hits them a second time (if you're even moderately decent with anivia, this is cake), you're dealing another 180(+150=320)x2 damage, or 640, healing you for another ~170.

TL;DR, Spellvamp is not UP, and the reason why is because unlike (most) physical attacks, Spells tend to hit multiple targets, and while its true most casters are bursty, to think they'll never take damage is very naive, and spellvamp allows them to stay on the battlefield longer without having to go back to base for HP. I've played many matches with my spellvamp anivia builds, and unlike most casters who have to go back to base whenever they have 10% hp or less, I simply push a lane and the first wave of minions I find puts me back to nearly full health.
Good up until the point that you failed to taking to account that- Drum roll....


AoE dmg gets 33% the benfit of Spell Vamp.


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Sylveria Bles

Senior Member

09-20-2010

I only see Morgana benefiting from spell vamp, as she's a nuker.

IMO there need to be more spell vamp items or current ones need to give more spell vamp percentage to make them competitive choices.


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Saybel

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Senior Member

09-21-2010

spell vamp is gimp