Ryze players:

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BROSEPHIROTH

Senior Member

08-29-2012

Buy spellvamp damn you.

I don't care if they "have ignite" or "any of the 50% -regen items". Get a Hextech Revolver and watch your survivability shoot through the roof. Had a Ryze just now who struggled against a Rengar bot lane. I check Ryze's items and see a first-purchase Rod of Ages (strike one) and no spellvamp (strike two). No wonder Rengar was ripping through him - Ryze indeed could survive the first combo but didn't have the damage output (no Ryze does) to finish off Rengar before the second combo starts.

Guess what gives you enough marginal health to survive long enough to finish off assassins!

Ryze completely relies on standing his ground and dumping multiple full combos on people. Two of his spells are very powerful single targets, and one of those two are castable nearly every other second or so. 12/20% spellvamp takes your huge survivability and puts it through the roof. You aren't burst, you're sustain.


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Nekrogen

Senior Member

08-29-2012

I'm going to disagree with you on this one. Spellvamp USED to be incredibly good on him, but since the a) WotA nerfs (and price increase), b) revolver nerfs, and c) Ryze nerfs in general, there isn't much point in getting WotA until much, much later in the game when you already have the damage to heal off of it. Since his E got buffed WRT mana, you can safely level it second and do tons of damage thanks to RoA. You don't want to get both RoA and WotA early because that's almost entirely redundant and there are better things to get before the other (CDR, Armor, MR, Damage/mana). You also have built in Spellvamp courtesy of your ultimate, so you don't REALLY need to get extra spellvamp unless you're facing a vlad or nunu in lane or something.

Also... since when was Ryze NOT a burst caster? Have you ever tried him as such? His passive opens up many many avenues of spell combinations which can allow you to either burst people down, or sustain DPS them down depending on the situation; it's ALWAYs been this way. Especially since his E buff, doing the Q->W->E->Q combo is incredibly bursty, especially with something to bounce E off of.

People assume Ryze is built and played one way, but this is simply wrong; you play Ryze the way which is most effective against your current opponents and situation. This includes build paths, spell combos, and positioning. If you assume Ryze is just a "mash your face into the keyboard -> profit!" champ, good luck winning high elo with him.


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MyDeadGrandma

Senior Member

08-29-2012

The question is 'when'?

I haven't seen any Ryzes do particularly well since his last changes. Whats his optimal build order?


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blackDAILO

Senior Member

08-29-2012

RoA is now a very good item on Ryze and as Nekrogen said, Ryze can deal a ton of burst for harrassing when played creatively.

With his passive, bot lane Ryze pretty much has its ult up very frequently for all-out sustained fights.


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lbgsloan

Senior Member

08-30-2012

I don't think I've seen a WotA on Dominion since Riot megaderped and nerfed the price and revolver instead of the aura stacking and Vlad. Hell, I don't think they buy it on SR anymore either but that's probably just because it doesn't give gold/10. Good job with that one Riot.

Anyway, as said the AP/mana adjustments on Ryze actually opened up a few item paths for him instead of having one. I don't actually think Ryze is better or worse than before, he always sucked early game. Bottom lane mages have just been power creeped out by the OP bruisers as of late.


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BROSEPHIROTH

Senior Member

08-30-2012

And what is Ryze supposed to do during the midgame where he's eating harass but has no way to heal up off it? You can only level up so often off the Catalyst if you're going the RoA route (and you don't get the Catalyst proc from Odyn's Veil).

My thread (admittedly a rage thread) was made after having to constantly babysit a Ryze bot who couldn't handle the Rengar harass and had to either constantly back - leaving his point open and vulnerable - or sit on the point waiting for health packs to respawn and giving Rengar freefarm.

Even a revolver would have let him sustain through the harass much better and allowed him to heal up off harassing Rengar with Q-W bursts, making the matchup that much more even.

The other thing - yes Ryze can burst. If you're going to define "burst" as dropping a combo and taking off 35% of someone's health then waiting until you can do that again, then yes that's burst. But Ryze excels at killing people who overcommit and leap on top of Ryze and that generally takes 2-3 strings to fully finish someone off. Or am I supposed to retreat and reposition against a Jax waiting until he's in kill zone?


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Ryzol Ryzo Ryz R

Senior Member

08-30-2012

Do you go tear first or RoA rush on Ryze?


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BROSEPHIROTH

Senior Member

08-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryzol Ryzo Ryz R View Post
Do you go tear first or RoA rush on Ryze?
Frankly depends on who I'm up against. I prefer tear myself but I've been experimenting with a catalyst start recently. I really don't like RoA at all as an item, personally. I find that the catalyst is put to much better use towards Odyn's Veil and if I'm hurting for AP that's generally an excuse to pick up a revolver or void staff.

My general item build (which changes depending on who I'm facing) is something like this:

-Tear, Boots {or Catalyst start}
-Glacial Shroud, Catalyst
-Sorc Shoes, Revolver
-Frozen Heart, Odyn's Veil
-Void Staff, Will of the Ancients
-Archangel's Staff
-If it gets to this point (extreme lategame) I'll sell boots for a big offense or defense item.

I might rush the heart or veil if I'm up against an easily-countered character, or if I start seeing them stacking MR I'll pick up the void staff earlier. If the enemy team is tilted heavily towards magic or physical then I'll change the build to suit.


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Warrrrax

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Senior Member

08-30-2012

Early on, Ryze just ISNT a sustained damage dealer. It takes a while.

With no CDR, his Q has a 3.5 second cooldown which is awful. That means Q,W,Q,E,Q,R,Q would have a 2.5 sec period inbetween every single Q pair! This sucks balls. Even with 13% CDR, its a 2 sec delay which is a lot.

So you are gonna be using Q,W,E,Q comboes which are a lot more instaneous. (technically 1.5 sec delay between Qs but you get some natural CDR from Defensive and Q itself, plus casting delay which makes it seem pretty quick).

Once youve got your Tear, Catalyst, boots, and if they are physical, Chain to Glacial Shroud.. THEN you can start considering your sustained damage output comboes. Ideally more when you have the Frozen Heart built, which puts you at 38.1% CDR or 2.1 sec Q cooldown.


I can see the value in a Revolver, but I always start with a Catalyst which does give quite a bit of both health and mana sustain. Once I got catalyst, tear, shroud, negatron, then I can grab a revolver for more sustain since I actually have decent sustainable damage output now.

You can decide whether to go RoA or just an Odins with your catalyst. I sit on the catalyst itself for quite a while because I desperately need my Shroud, negatron and the initial RoA takes a really long time to get. I wanna get my core before going further with it.


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Phourc

Senior Member

08-30-2012

I don't think I've touched Ryze since his remake, I seem to recall he has better AP ratios now, I can see an early revolver maybe. Still, if the cool kids are building a RoA that should probably be completed first so it has time to charge....


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