If Viktor is supposed to be evil...

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

fireneko

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Junior Member

08-30-2012

a bit off topic but most of you seem like big viktor fans so i figure you'd have an opinion on this. it struck me as quite odd, and in fact a bit out of character that viktor, who had his brilliant idea stolen from him which drove him to obsess over recreating himself as an invention no one could steal, would go and steal technology from someone else.
on topic side note, i never felt viktor was evil, walking the fine line maybe, but not evil


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

DrTemptragon

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

08-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by fireneko View Post
a bit off topic but most of you seem like big viktor fans so i figure you'd have an opinion on this. it struck me as quite odd, and in fact a bit out of character that viktor, who had his brilliant idea stolen from him which drove him to obsess over recreating himself as an invention no one could steal, would go and steal technology from someone else.
on topic side note, i never felt viktor was evil, walking the fine line maybe, but not evil
Technically, the crystal isn't Jayce's technology, but a natural resource. Viktor wanted the crystal, not Jayce's device using it.

Fine line and all that. But Viktor's character is still not entirely settled; while Jayce's original Lore did cross that line, the new one is within reasonable bounds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xulsigae View Post
I would wonder how Viktor interacts with Mundo, as they both kinda deal with trans-humanism, Viktor through machines, Mundo through drugs and such.
I'm more interested in how he'd deal with Xerath; while Xerath views his ascention as more of a means to an end, he's a magical transhumanist of sorts.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

TTT Jibca

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

08-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Telvarin View Post
Viktor isnt evil. It's about perspective. From his point of view, he's doing what's right for the improvement of his race. Others disagree, and feel their way is right. You can see things like this throughout history. A good "villain" is someone who honestly believes their way is right, and will do whatever they can do do what is "right." Opinion and point of view changes everything.
Some people just want to see the world burn.
That may not be the case with Viktor, but I couldn't let you say that and not involve a reference to TDK.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

belthazor3457

Senior Member

08-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbaknight View Post
Please do. I actually want to read it.
Very well.


If you're a child soldier in parts of africa (and they're not confined just to africa for the record) and you're one of those people forced to partake in acts of violence through no choice of your own (and this can happen to kids barely old enough to hold a gun, child soldiers can be, for example, age 5-15, most of the warlords in certain areas of the world arn't too picky about your exact age) often times you will be exposed to the amoral parts of warfare (that are kept out of the media eye).

For example, suppose you had to kill everyone in a village because your enemy's forces are going to take the village soon and you need to pull out - so you must of course kill all the villagers to prevent them from growing crops / producing food / giving medical aid and lodging to your enemy. This is often coupled with burning down the buildings once all the villagers are killed. In this scenario, did you know that you can save lots of ammunition by rounding up all the villagers, making them dig a large pit, and burying them all alive?

Saves a lot of bullets if your people are short on supplies - and in a lot of the more wartorn areas of the world, good luck going in and out of that span of your life well fed.

A lot of people wind up with starvation-based dwarfism. Food is precious in a combat area when you did not have the good fortune to be part of one of the major military world powers.

The more benevolent warlords will often offer a carrot or stick approach. Hey, you're a kid, you're coming to fight for us, and if you do, you and your family get food. Your family will be safe and sound... all you have to do is carry this rifle and do what we tell you.

When you are placed in that position, it will not matter how many innocent people you kill, villages you burn, etc. Through your actions, your family can remain safe and fed. At that point, you are the good guy. It doesn't matter how many villagers you've shot, buried alive, tortured for information despite high probability that they know nothing... you're the good guy.

Especially for children, let's say... Joe. Joe is a seven year old boy. Joe was drafted to fight. If Joe deserts his comrades (goes absent without leave) and tries to escape his position, his family will be killed. If he does not desert, his family will be fed - as will he. For the most part, anyway.

All Joe has to do is give his loyalty.

Joe, showing gigantic aptitude at leadership, firmly holding the belief that he is the "good guy" as all of his actions keep his family safe. And he is, after his 12th birthday, (This would be around his fifth year of service) educated on how to write and read, and is given a position of control over a small group of soldiers. Joe has shot a few dozen people in battle, and participated in the killing of villagers under his predecessor. But, as with all lifespans in this scenario, his predecessor is killed and needs to be replaced. Joe takes control.

Joe's forces need to pull out of a village before it is taken by their enemy. Joe orders the villagers to be killed and the village burned down. He's done this with... let's say five or six villages in the time he has been in service.

By the standards that the western world likes to apply, Joe is a "war criminal" - but Joe is also 12 year old child.

Furthermore, Joe had no control over his situation... kinda like people who get drafted, but instead of having yourself banned from coming back into the united states for dodging the draft, your family is killed.

As far as Joe knows, Joe is a good guy. Joe protected his family, and protected his soldiers that are loyal to him, as well as their families by proxy. That's all that matters.

Once a year, Joe gets the privlidge of visiting his family - and he does so with a clear conscience, knowing that his siblings and parents are well fed and protected through his actions... as are the families of those who assist him in killing villagers.

In this scenario you are faced with the void of utter ruthlessness. It can traumatize adults, imagine what it does to the mind of a child.

But as far as Joe knows, Joe is the good guy in this story.

Because mommy and daddy are safe. Because little sister was never raped. Because little brother didn't have to fight and see what Joe has seen or do what Joe has done. And because they all have the miracle of food and water. Such a first world convenience to not be starving! Imagine being able to live a little bit like westerners! Actually having food! Isn't that amazing? Our warlord is so very generous that our families get to be fed.

Joe gets to sleep at night with a clear conscience.

Yet, were he an adult, the west would identify him as a clearly evil "War crimminal" - for no reason other than his age.


...so, my point is, evil is up to interpretation. = )


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

DrTemptragon

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

08-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by belthazor3457 View Post
Yet, were he an adult, the west would identify him as a clearly evil "War crimminal" - for no reason other than his age.


...so, my point is, evil is up to interpretation. = )
*blinks* Except it's considered by most people that children do not have the complete faculties required to completely understand the implications about a large amount of their behaviours. Thus drinking age, driving age, voting age and age of consent.

So in that case, the age is a relevant measure. My point was that Riot are identifying Viktor as a "Tragic Villian", but he's not actually done anything wrong.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

belthazor3457

Senior Member

08-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrTemptragon View Post
*blinks* Except it's considered by most people that children do not have the complete faculties required to completely understand the implications about a large amount of their behaviours. Thus drinking age, driving age, voting age and age of consent.

So in that case, the age is a relevant measure. My point was that Riot are identifying Viktor as a "Tragic Villian", but he's not actually done anything wrong.
Mmm... so what if he simply did not escape that scenario, and went on into adulthood doing the same thing, then?

Because that's a fairly common circumstance. = )

Does he magically become evil once he reaches his 18th birthday?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ThorRush

Senior Member

08-30-2012

I'd like to point out that Harrow's already posted in the thread with a loose view on Viktor's evilness. Of course Jayce sees Viktor as evil. Of course Viktor himself doesn't. Riot doesn't necessarily consider him a villain, they are telling a story in which Viktor's actions may be considered villainous.

Bel's example is ... depressingly realistic. Child soldiers are an issue actually addressed in this game with Lux, but not nearly as completely as that.

The thing is, with that example, there are multiple viewpoints that conflict with each other. As applies to Viktor's evilness, the age factor is irrelevant. People of all ages have reasons to commit actions that are conventionally evil. However, it may be that Viktor believes the end justifies the means. To use Bel's example, a child soldier will do anything to stay fed (visiting once a year is ... optimistic). Viktor will do anything for the Glorious Evolution. His motives, the ends he wants, are not necessarily villainous anymore than they are transhuman, but the means through which he is willing to go to get them may be seen as villainous.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Xulsigae

Senior Member

08-30-2012

It's akin to Doctor Horrible and Captain Hammer. Doctor Horrible is trying to fight against what he sees as hypocrisy and corruption with his Freeze Ray (Sing along now!) and Captain Hammer just likes thwarting him.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

webbut

Senior Member

08-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xulsigae View Post
It's akin to Doctor Horrible and Captain Hammer. Doctor Horrible is trying to fight against what he sees as hypocrisy and corruption with his Freeze Ray (Sing along now!) and Captain Hammer just likes thwarting him.
I'm still mad they haven't made Dr.Horrible and Captain Hammer Skins for those two yet though this forum has a red post maybe they'll see and get the ball rollin


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Xulsigae

Senior Member

08-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by webbut View Post
I'm still mad they haven't made Dr.Horrible and Captain Hammer Skins for those two yet though this forum has a red post maybe they'll see and get the ball rollin
Darn copywrite.