[Campion Concept] Gaia, the Archon of Mana v2

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All Hail Swain

Senior Member

08-28-2012

Would like some feedback.

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''Archon is a Greek word that means "ruler" or "lord", frequently used as the title of a specific public office.'' - Wikipedia

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Attributes:
Melee, mage, fighter
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Stats:
Health: 360 (+76)
Health regen: 5.2 (+0.55)
Mana: 250 (+50)
Mana regen: 4.4 (+0.8)
Attack damage: 48 + (3)
Armor: 17 (+3.3)
Magic resist: 20 (+ 1.2)
Movement speed: 325
Attack range: 150
Base attack speed: 0.65 (+3.4%)
Quote:
Quotes:
Note:
She has a voice similar to Lux, bot not as squeaky.

Upon selection:
-In your hands Ancient Knowledge awakens!
Attack:
-For......Gaia?
-Bye, bye.
-From fight to fight. *sigh*
Movement:
-Swiftly.
-Where are we going?
-I hope it's not too far.
Taunt:
-I know were you live...and what you did last summer.
-The moment you feel pain will be the same moment I laugh standing above you. Ha. Haha. Ha.
Joke:
-Am I insane? Hmmmmm...YES!
-Old? I am not old, am I?
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Background story
:
Hundreds of years ago, long before the creation of the League, even in that time there was Ionia. And in Ionia there was a girl. A young, impatient and rash mage in training.
The mage, Gaia, was naturally talented in arcane abilities. But she would rarely study as she should. It did not make her teachers happy, they were saddened by such waste of talent.
Still, she refused to specifically study the magic she was supposed to. Instead she would spend hours and hours in the library searching through old books and scrolls for any study on the source of magic, mana. Instead of studying magic itself, she studied how magic works. But it was a hopeless search, as there was no text, ancient or not, that would reveal anything, not even the slightest bit.
But Gaia never gave up on her search. She went through every book she could find, and still nothing.
A true blessing was an ancient scroll found in the area near Icatchia. The writings on the scroll were not in any language known. She spent the next decade of her life decyphering it. And she did.
It was a map, a map revealing a safe passage way to the heart of Icatchia. Naturally, she followed it.

What she found in Icatchia was a library with an ancient spirit guarding it.
The spirit sought freedom from it's prison, to finally die. But it was cursed to guard that library until someone else would gain the same magical abilities as he did, someone who could replace his purpose in this world as the Guardian of Knowledge. For this trade, he was willing to teach Gaia everything she wanted. She accepted.
And so, hundred years of teaching, studying and practicing magic went by, and Gaia learned everything she wanted, and a few other, frightening things. Armed with new knowledge, and a new title that she gave herself based on the one thing that helped her achieve what she did, the Archon of mana set of on a journey through Valoran to fulfill the duty given to her by the long gone spirit. And the League, the place where all of Valoran's knowledge gathers, was the perfect tool for achieving it.

''I am here to prevent old mistakes from being made again, and have some fun while at it.'' - Gaia, the Archon of Mana

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Ailities:
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Passive - Insight
Each of Gaia's autoattacks applies a damage over time effect. The attacked enemy will take 2,5% of her max. mana as damage over 3 seconds and slow the enemy by 5/6/7% per stack. Stacks 3 times.
Increases at levels 7 and 13

It may look like it does insane damage, but this ability is actually really weak. At 3 stacks it will deal 2,5 damage per second for every 100 mana she has.
That means that, without items, this ability will deal 6,25 (+1,25 per level) magic damage per second. Not the most powerful skill,aye? Especially since it is a on-hit passive on a mage.
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Q - Mana Drain [Costs: 50/75/100/125/150 mana] [Base cooldown: 8/7.5/7/6.5/6]
Passive: Gaia restores her mana by 4/5/6/7/8% of all the damage she deals.
Gaia deals 80/135/190/245/300 (+ 0.8 AP) magic damage to the target over 4 seconds and restores her mana by 42% of the damage dealt.

Notes:
-It is a single target ability, just like Malzahar's E.
-The cast range is 400.
-It has no cast time and does not disrupt movement.

I know what you're thinking: Endless mana, OMG! Endless harass. Endless harass at 400 range? Sounds legit! And endless mana? Hmmm. Not really. Since it can barely sustain itself without AP, and that without counting MR. At lover levels it will cost little mana while at lv5 it will basically cost nothing. And with AP it will start restoring mana, but it still won't matter, since her other two harass abilities are:
a) an ability with a seemingly low CD but it works like Akali's. Use it once and it deals low damage with low CD. Use it trice and it is a good harass with a very long CD.
b) her main CC that has a long CD and it is a skillshot.
Thus, if she attacks she commits, since damage on her also sticks. She may regen mana, bust she still has HP.
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W - Battle Orbs [Costs: 12% of max mana] [Base cooldown: 0.5 seconds]
Passive: For every orb she currently has (aka, didn't throw it), Gaia will gain 2% MS.
Gaia launches one ''Battle Orb'' at the enemy champion dealing 25/40/55/750/85 (+0.3 AP) (+3.5% of her max mana) magic damage.
She will store one orb every 15 seconds or upon kills and assists, max. 3 orbs.

Notes:
-Single target ability.
-650 range.

Omg, so much bust! Well, yes, but it's also her only burst, and it has a heluva CD. And it's huge burst come mostly from AP and mana, the base damage is not really that phenomenal. 75 at lv1. 255 at lv5. i've seen better damage on longer range and lower CD. Well, 1/3 of the damage goes off cooldown per kill and assist, so that pulls it to a bursty ability with a comeback sustained damage. Still felt somewhat weak, so I aded the 2% MS bonus. Counting that she has no other ability, and that she looses the bonus when she uses this ability. So that brings out a certain ganking pattern. E then get close to AA, a,d asfter 3 hits unload W. Otherwise you are too slow to gank.
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E - Spell Chains [Costs: 120 mana] [Base cooldown:12 seconds]
Gaia sends out a skillshot nuke that will deal 40/65/90/115/140 (+ 0.60 AP) (+6% of her Max. mana) to the first enemy champion it hits and stuns the hit champion for 0.2/0.4/0.6/0.8/1 seconds. The champion will afterwards be snared for another 1 second.

Notes:
-It is a skillshot nuke that stops when it hits an enemy champion.
-It's cast range is 700.
-Can hit stealthed units, does not reveal them.

A hard CC that bypasses minions? Well. Firstly, that's because she will have almost no harassing power early game unless she get's into range, unlike most other mages with this type of CC. Thus, she needs to have this ability go through minions. And minions become obsolete late game, anyway. And the reason it is a stun+snare is because she needed two things, a CC that would disable an enemy champion (stun, silence, suppress...) and a CC that would stop their movement (slow, snare...). Giving her just a 2 sec stun would have been too powerful, and giving her a 2 seconds snare would be too weak. So, jsut split it into a short stun + short snare. Problem solved. This ability also has a lame base damage with nice scalings. That was to motivate you not to invest in it if you want damage rather than CC.
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R - Mana Shield [Cost: 50 initial mana and then 15/25/35 + 1% of her max mana per second] [Base cooldown: 15/12.5/10]
Gaia creates a shield around her made out of pure mana. While the shield holds it will absorb 35% of damage taken and she will lose 0.5 points of mana for each point of damage absorbed. While on, she will gain a passive effect:
Every second Gaia will deal 50/75/100 +(0.2 AP) (+5% of her missing mana) magic damage in an AoE around her.

Notes:
-It is a instant spell that requires no target.
-Even though it can be turned on/off it doesn't count as a toggle (similar to Ramuss's
''Powerball'' and ''Defensive Ball Curl''), thus it procs ''Archangel's
Staff'' passive, Maokai's passive etc. both when turning it on and off.
-Has a 1 sec. cooldown before it can be deactivated.
-It doesn't have an casting delay.
-The damage absorption comes after MR and armor calculations.
-The passive's AoE is 800.
-The passive actually deals 12.5/17.5/22.5 (+0.05 AP) + 1,25% of her missing mana every quater of a second.

This ability. It makes me unsure. Is her damage reduction enough. I kinda feel it's too weak, but it still bugs me, because it could also be too strong.
The damage is also both in synergy and out of synergy with the rest of her kit. It scales of her missing mana for a reason. Because that will increase her mana regen with Q's passive (8% of 5% mana missing is 0,4% of mana missing restored each second.). It also gives her tankyness, allowing her to survive without building like singed. She is melee and she needs to be in melee range to be most effective. This ability is here toinsure that.


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All Hail Swain

Senior Member

08-30-2012

bump :/


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Arixa

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Senior Member

08-30-2012

I'm going to give you a review on this.


Passive: This is cool though given the fact she is melee and her spells have pretty good range I'm not sure when she would ever use this. Lots of mages have auto attack passives but they are ranged. Maybe give her like 400-ish range?(urgot AA range)

Q: This spell is basically free. Free harass is a problem in lane. I understand that as a mana archon you want her to have stuff related to mana but giving a free 300 damage .8ap ratio is a huge problem. Note all other mana restore effects in game require you to kill the target, there is a reason for that.

W: I like the idea but the numbers are too high this ability basically says 240 damage with a .75ap ratio and 12% mana ratio since you launch 3 orbs in 1.5 seconds.

E: This ability is a little odd. At low ranks it basically doesn't stun. Why did you split it into 2 separate types of CC? I don't want to judge it without more insight.

R: This spell works against itself. You do damage based on missing mana but it restores mana. Outside of that 45% damage reduction is probably way too high for a mage who gets to build mana(a naturally tanky build, look at Ryze.)

Overall: The melee nature seems really out of place. % mana costs seem to work against the whole concept of building mana to make your stuff scale. Numbers across the board range from too good, to sounding crazy broken. This character delivers some pretty insane ratios(2.15ap + 18% mana) on her base spells combined with an ult that makes her mostly impossible to kill 1v1. None of her abilities really seem to combo together either though I guess the stun/root allows you to close for the melee passive.


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All Hail Swain

Senior Member

08-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arixa View Post
I'm going to give you a review on this.


Passive: This is cool though given the fact she is melee and her spells have pretty good range I'm not sure when she would ever use this. Lots of mages have auto attack passives but they are ranged. Maybe give her like 400-ish range?(urgot AA range)

Q: This spell is basically free. Free harass is a problem in lane. I understand that as a mana archon you want her to have stuff related to mana but giving a free 300 damage .8ap ratio is a huge problem. Note all other mana restore effects in game require you to kill the target, there is a reason for that.

W: I like the idea but the numbers are too high this ability basically says 240 damage with a .75ap ratio and 12% mana ratio since you launch 3 orbs in 1.5 seconds.

E: This ability is a little odd. At low ranks it basically doesn't stun. Why did you split it into 2 separate types of CC? I don't want to judge it without more insight.

R: This spell works against itself. You do damage based on missing mana but it restores mana. Outside of that 45% damage reduction is probably way too high for a mage who gets to build mana(a naturally tanky build, look at Ryze.)

Overall: The melee nature seems really out of place. % mana costs seem to work against the whole concept of building mana to make your stuff scale. Numbers across the board range from too good, to sounding crazy broken. This character delivers some pretty insane ratios(2.15ap + 18% mana) on her base spells combined with an ult that makes her mostly impossible to kill 1v1. None of her abilities really seem to combo together either though I guess the stun/root allows you to close for the melee passive.
Passive: Give her a reason to AA. She is melee. Just standing there casting abilities seems useless. You want to go in and AA to be able to deal real damage.

Q: Yeah. Maybe it is too strong for free harass. Counting that all other free harass is either:
A - close ranged
B - low damage

I'll just go with reducing the range to 200 or 250, which is almost melee. Enough to sustain off minions, hard to harass with.

W: I did the numbers, you'll see later, not too high.

E: The E ability has almost no base damage. Most of it comes from the scalings. So, there is no reason for the player to invest in it. But then there's the point that it's her only reliable CC. So you want to invest in it. Thus, the CC was let to scale.
Then, she needs a disruption.
Being melee without a disruption ability can hurt you a lot. But giving her silence was too weak. Two seconds of stun was too strong. But two seconds of snare was too weak.
So. Give her 1 second of stun and then 1 second of snare. Then make the stun scale per level because it would be too strong to have it at its full power at level 1.

R: 45% damage reduction might not be too high, counting that you pay every 1 damage that was absorbed with 1.2 mana (will increase it to 1.5), and pay the ability for 1.5% of your max mana, per second. And unlike Ryze, she doesn't have inbuilt Spell Vamp, so the damage she takes will stick more easily. The reason she restores mana but scales with missing mana is basically the point that she will loose a lot of mana while this ability is active. She will lose tons of mana while this ability is active. She needs a way to keep the shield up as long as possible. Also, giving her an missing mana ratio was basically to increase her presence over time. As she slowly looses mana she deals more and more damage.

Now to the calculations.
In the time of 6 seconds, with both having 40% CDR, Ryze might outdamage her.

If Ryze does a perfect combo within 6 seconds he will deal:
1720 base damage with a 5.3AP scaling and a 44.5% max. mana scaling
Q has 2.1 sec CD. W 8.4. E 8.4. R is irrelevant.

QWEQRQ wait 1.1 second QWEQ.

Total mana cost: 780

If Gaia does a perfect combo she will deal:
1370 base damage with a 3.75AP scaling and a 25.5% max mana scaling, and an 48% missing mana scaling (which can be a lot and a little. Variable.)
Q has a 3.6 seconds cooldown (damage doesn't stack). W used three times, then nothing.
E has 7.2 seconds cooldown. R is on all the time.

QWER wait 3.6 seconds Q. And autoattack whenever you can.
At level 18, her attack speed will be 1.04, meaning that in those 6 seconds she could possibly do 6 autoattacks. With her passive, that would deal 0.5% her max. mana the first second, 1% of her max mana the second second, and then 1.5% of her max mana every second for the remaining 4 seconds. That's 7.5% max mana scaling.

Total mana cost: 530 + 39% of her max. mana.
But she will regenerate 270 (+0.72AP) mana with her Q and 10% of all damage she deals with her R. But will also loose 1.5 mana for every 1 damage her R reduces.

Besides damage, Ryze also has:
Two snares (3.5 seconds total duration). Two times MR reduction (24 for the whole 6 seconds, and more). MS increase (55 for 7 seconds). Spell Vamp (25% for 7 seconds) and all of his skills do 50% AoE damage for 7 seconds.

Besides damage, Gaia also has:
15% slow IF you hit your enemy 3 times. Mana regen (stated above). 1 second stun, 1 second snare. 45% damage reduction. Mana regen.

As you see, Ryze is stronger than her in many ways, but weaker in some.
My guess, she might need a buff.

Tnx for the reply.


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Arixa

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Senior Member

08-31-2012

Why not have both the stun and root scale with level? Start at .6 each and scale up to 1 second each. I guess I just find it weird to have something with an almost non-existent stun tacked onto the start at rank 1(the rank you will probably have this at until the end of the game)

I'm still thinking this character goes top, gets a revolver, and then says Eff you to her lane opponent as they have no way to get through both her ult and the spell vamp. Even at melee range Q she can still trade with top, get a couple ult ticks and a free Q to their 45% reduced ability. Her passive should let her outdps most tops in an autoattack war.


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All Hail Swain

Senior Member

08-31-2012

All right then. I'll compare her to Rumble and Swain at level 6.
All of them only have an hextech revolver because they only went back once, and they all leveled their Q three times and the other abilities twice.

Gaia: 40 AP and 550 mana, and 0.78 AS.
On a duration of 6 seconds, she would deal:
Her passive would deal two tics of 0.5% max mana, one tic of 1% max mana and three tics of 1.5% max mana, because of her attack speed. That mean that in 6 seconds, her passive deals 36 magic damage (6.5% of her max mana).
During those 6 seconds, she would land 4 AAs, which is 264 physical damage.
Q: 190 + 32 = 222 m damage
W: 60 + 30 + 66 = 156 m damage
E: 40 + 24 + 33 = 87 m damage
R: 300 + 48 = 348 m damage (not counting missing mana yet)

Total: 1113 damage

Rumble (counting abilities constantly in the danger zone), 0,715 AS. 40 AP
He can land 4 autoattacks: 300 physical damage (here, Gaia's auto attacks with her passive deal less damage)
Q: 355 (without danger zone 284)
E: 337 (no danger zone 270)
R: 710

Total magic damage: 1702 (1564)

With her ultimate, she will block 40% of damage taken. That is 680 (625) damage reduced, but she looses that same amount of damage as mana. To Rumble she would loose automatically because she wouldn't have enough mana in the middle of the fight.

Swain(leveling E first(damage increased by 14%)).
E: 212
W: 123
Q: 126
R: 380
Total damage: 841, reduced by her ult to 504. But she looses 337 mana for that. (I didn't count his auto attacks, which might bring the damage up by 200)

Hmmm. I'm seeing a pattern here. Her damage reduction is large, but it leaves her without any mana to fight off the enemy.
Maybe reduce the damage reduction to 35% and the mana per point of damage reduced to 0.5, that way she doesn't have too much damage reduction at a too high price. Reducing the mana ration on W too, it's too big.

Oh, and about her E.
It's supposed to be a snare with a disruption early game but then become disruption with a snare late game.

And her passive is very weak when you look at it's damage. 35,7 in 6 seconds? Yeah, I'll buy a revolver for that!

Honestly, the only way left to balance her now is to actually play test her....like that's ever gonna happen.


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Arixa

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Senior Member

08-31-2012

She can play very differently than rumble can however. She can walk in to Q, root him and walk away with him getting basically no damage on her. She doesn't have to trade full combo to full combo. I think that is part of the problem I have with the scenarios you set up with other mages. Her full combo takes like 2 seconds and includes a hard CC that allows her to walk away.

Compare her ability to sustain herself against say vlad. Both max Q, both go hextech. Both basically have free Q's. She can use her ult to offset his pathetic AA(pathetic in both range and damage) and trade Q's to gain life against him since her Q has both higher base damage and higher AP ratio for roughly the same CD. Vlad is considered quite strong in SR top lane right? He also doesn't have a hard CC and his abilities outside of transfuse cost a lot of life. Meanwhile her other abilities(notably the ult ticking on both vlad and minions) will grant her significant sustain.


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All Hail Swain

Senior Member

08-31-2012

Well, you see.First of all, her Q requires her to get in nearly melee range to cast it.
It's cast range is the same as Evelyn's Ravage.
She can't just use it as a free harass. Vlad can outharass her because he can do it from greater range.
If she levels her W instead of Q she will have almost no sustain in lane, but a safe (and maybe weak) harass.
If she levels E she will have no damage, but at least she will have enough time to close in to get into melee range.

Her R doesn't really refund much mana.
10% per minion hit. That's 5/7/9 (+0.02 AP) (+0.8% of mana missing) mana restored per minion, per second.
If the ult hits one champion she will restore 10/14/18 (+0.04 AP) (+1,6% of mana missing) per second.
In a classic battle scenario there will generally be 6 minions and 1 champion top.
At level 6 (with a revolver) that's 40 (0.18 AP) (+6.4% of mana missing) every second. Ok, so her W does refund much mana. But do count that it costs 15 mana per second at level 6, and an additional 0.5 mana per damage the ult absorbs. I think you are not looking closely enough.

She doesn't have a free ranged harass.
She doesn't reduce tons of damage.
She doesn't restore tons of mana (but I am educing that missing mana %)

Honestly, like I said before, only way to balance now is playtesting.