AP Ezreal.

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TalLavi

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Senior Member

08-25-2012

Red post, ignore everything

No seriously guys, just because we got a Red post it doesn't mean everything else written in this thread is worthless.
Before you quote Kades and ask him a question check the thread or at least the OP, it has most likely been asked or explained before.


Seriously Riot? Not only did Ezreal (The designer) said that AP Ezreal does need some QoL Changes I also remember a Red saying that his W width should increase!
Riot nerfed Ezreal's base damage on Essence flux by 30 and matched the width of his W to the particle essentially nerfing his W width.
They did give him a 0.2AP ratio buff in return but I believe its not enough.

At least compensate Ezreal players buy adding more AP Ratio to his Q and let his passive get some M.Pen per stack.

What I think should be done about AP Ez

Quote:
Mystic shot: Increase the AP ratio by +0.2, It wont add anything to AD Ezreal and will really add some more early game damage to AP Ezreal.

Essence Flux: I really think you should widen it again, if not at least give it some more projectile speed because its so easy to dodge right now in mid lane especially vs skilled opponents.
Bring back the damage because AP Ez needs that early game damage because he is mainly a poke-harass champ.
You can lower the CDR if you want, might strengthen AD Ez but in order to keep it balanced you can revert the mana cost to old mana cost (+10) so AD Ez will run oom fast if he spams

Arcane shift: I think its O.K. maybe a fix to the 1/2sec delay he has before he shifts, its really annoying when you are running away from a Taric/Sion and try to shift, in that 1/2sec pause he does in the animation the enemy manages to get into range and shoot a stun/slow that will follow you after you shift (Unlike Graves, Corki who just instantaneously re-position).

Trueshot Barrage: Everything ok here, best skill in the game and landing an across the map shot feels awesome!

Passive: Now I really dont like his passive only working for AD Ezreal, I really think if you made the passive cater to AP Ezreal as well it will make Ezreal a legitimate pick in the communities eyes, it will make people see that Riot think that AP Ez is an actually thing.
For the passive, I think it should give M.Pen per stack, Until level 6 it should give 2 per stack, 10 at max, level 7-11 3 per stack, 15 at max, and 12-18 4 per stack, 20 at max.

This way it will also encourage AD Ezreals to think before they act, the ulti will no longer be a just shoot it so I can get 5 stacks on my passive, but a decision of whether I should shoot it and get max stacks or go for a quick E+Q+W+Q combo and then ulti for Maximum damage output.
Coldplay's take on AP Ezreal and my response to it.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoIdpIay View Post
Ezreal has many fans that either prefer to play him as an AD carry or an AP mid laner. As a result it is incredibly difficult to both types of players while maintaining balance.

Recently, Ezreal has seen an increase in play and popularity due to his dominance as an AD bot laner. People fear that if Riot buffs the AP abilities of Ezreal, Riot will also increase the dominance of AD Ezreal.

What Riot strives for is an increase in fun when they balance any champion. To me, there are only 2 things that make a champion incredibly popular:

1. The champion is so dominant that the game is practically a free win
2. The champion's skill set is extremely rewarding when used correctly AND the champ is viable (strong) in ranked play

Right now, many people, including Riot, feel that Ezreal is simply too dominant bot lane making the game incredibly easy for the Ezreal player and super frustrating for the opponent.

Below are my proposed balance changes for Ezreal. I am striving to maintain balance for AD Ezreal and AP Ezreal so that both are viable and fun to play.

AD Ezreal:

Right now AD Ezreal walks over many bot laners due to the increase of players maxing Essence Flux to win every exchange. Not only does Essence Flux provide great burst, it has great utility due to its friendly attack speed buff and enemy attack speed debuff. This makes trading with Ezreal very difficult if the you are playing an ADC with 600 or less auto range.

I propose a nerf to the duration of the attack speed buff/debuff from 5 seconds to either 4 or even 3 seconds. This will make trading more manageable when playing against an Ezreal.

Another way to decrease the use of Essence Flux is to make Mystic Shot more attractive to level up. As it stands, mystic shot is great at its first level because most players simply take 1 point and use it as an auto attack reset for damage and free attack speed (from his passive). Mystic Shot also falls off late since Ezreal's auto attack becomes so strong with ADC items.

To balance mystic shot, base damage should be increased at early levels while scaling should be changed from (+1) to a scaled ratio from (+.8) to (+1.1 or +1.2) at rank 5. This will force Ezreal players to make a choice between leveling essence flux or mystic shot. Making choices like these enhances a player's experience in game which I find increases the level of fun for a player.

As for Ezreal's other skills (from an ADC standpoint), they are pretty balanced. I believe Arcane Shift is fine as is because the stun only hits you after you port. If you send a stun at corki while he is in mid-air he just drops. Grave's dash is shorter distance and he has low auto range so I believe it's fine that it casts instantly.

AP Ezreal:

Most of the changes I made to AD Ezreal may look like a nerf for AP Ezreal. So I will tackle each skill separately.

Passive: As of right now, Ezreal's passive is much stronger for an ADC and almost useless for AP Ezreal outside of pushing towers. I propose a passive that changes based on AP vs AD. Although the numbers are very hard to adjust I believe it should be something like:

If Ezreal's AP is at least equal to or greater than 30% of his AD, Ezreal receives a different passive. This new passive would modify Mystic Shot to do magic damage instead of physical damage. This different passive would also grant Ezreal % or flat mpen per rising spell force stack.

The reason why Ezreal's AP has to be at least a % amount of his AD is put into the description so that AP Ezreal's can activate this secondary passive with the right rune setup, while AD Ezreal will never activate this secondary passive as his AD will always be high enough so that Ezreal will use the current passive.

Mystic Shot: Now that Mystic Shot does magic damage, we have to readjust the ratios. I already increased the base damage from the AD Ezreal changes which makes AP Ezreal stronger. This change in type of damage also boosts its late game synergy with Lich Bane as the proc will now apply as magic damage. Therefore, I don't see a reason to change it's scaling AD ratio and it's static +.2 AP ratio simply because I already buffed it's early and late game potential.

Essence Flux: I nerfed the utility earlier so that opponent bot laners could manage trading against Ezreal. To compensate, I would sligtly nerf the base damage and increase the scaling. I would also increase the width slightly so that AP Ezreal can build up stacks to use his ult right after with the mpen passive. Essence Flux is already a really strong spell mid game due to it's AoE damage and AoE buff/debuff.

Arcane Shift: I believe this is pretty balanced. One change that should be considered is to change its targetting so that it prioritizes opponents.

Trueshot Barrage: Great ult, probably doesn't need changes.

TL: DR --

1. Shift damage output from Essence Flux to Mystic Shot to make playing against AD Ezreal more manageable while maintaining his total damage output for great Ezreal players that can land mystic shots.

2. Make ad ratio on mystic shot scale so it becomes more attractive to level up and so that it's more powerful late game which is usually when it falls off in favor of auto attacks.

3. Adjust passive so that it can benefit both types of Ezreal players.
Very nice, very comprehensive.
Let me give my input in a couple of things

Start of with Essence flux

-Debuff duration, couldn't agree with you more.
The main reason Riot nerfed his W was because of the absurd utility it gave in lane. While the debuff also helps AP Ez this is not the reason he specs into Essence flux, it is used as a primary damage source and the debuff is just the cherry on top.

-Base damage reduction and AP scaling,
I am sorry but I do not think the same as you, taking away some of the base damage of W is the biggest hit AP Ez can take, its our primary damage source and the only way to harass enemies at early levels, Essence flux already does little to no damage at its low level (1~2) and Ezreals need to wait until level 5 until it starts doing actual damage, lowering the Base damage will make harassing and trading really hard on AP Ezreal, which is the main aspect we need.
I really think what should be done here is make Mystic shot more attractive to AD carries rather then making Essence flux less.

-Width, definitely needs a change, Essence flux is a very easy to dodge skill and unless you increase the width or the projectile speed, landing those max range Essence flux is going to be really hard and mostly based on the opponents skill level rather than yours.

Mystic Shot
Like you said, Mystic shot needs to appeal more to AD Ezreal because right now no one really wants to put points in it.
Even in max level it still deals to little to be worth it because at bot lane when it comes to trading, Mystic shots low CD and spamability wont help when vs other champs mostly because the fights end in 4~6 seconds.
You might get another Mystic shot in but I would really rather have buckshot or Corki's Q because they just pack more of a punch.
So yea make it a bit stronger, don't revert it to its original state when 1 Q would take away a 1/3 of your HP. Heck even increase the CD a bit at early levels and make it feel strong like other champs main damage source and make it scale higher with level so people will want to Max it first.
And give it a small buff for AP Ez in the AP ratio, just a 0.2->0.4 will make us super happy because that like a 0.6~1.2 Ratio in the duration of an entire fight.

Edit, Forgot about the passive.
Passive
I really liked that passive Idea as well but then I thought about Hybrid builds with Rageblade, how will that work? when at 5 stacks suddenly your passive changes or something like that.
Also with Baron buff and Trinity Ezreals can get up to 80AP and with a Lulu shield it can get up to 100+ when your AD sits at 200 its not gonna be fun...
I really think giving it both AS and M.Pen per stack is the best solution.

And thats pretty much it, thanks for the long post man, I will put it up in the OP.
Pros & Cons of AP Ezreal

Quote:
50% to minions will help him farm but it will also make his harass in lane worse, try landing a skillshot on the enemy and you push the lane/loss CS.

Also dont forget that champs need to have pros and cons, AP Ez has high mobility, high burst and high sustained damage, add the ability to farm up a lane in 1 skillshot and you have a super OP champ who can push lanes roam and come back in time to push again.

One of the only ways of denying an AP Ezreal is pushing his lane or out harassing him, you gotta leave some room for counter play.


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Rough Justice

Member

08-25-2012

Ezreal is a ****. Hardcore harass, and with right support, unstoppable. Completely disagree.


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TalLavi

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Senior Member

08-25-2012

I am talking about AP Ezreal not AD Ezreal.


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ihave2cows

Senior Member

08-25-2012

I dont quite think you understand...

inb4'd


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getonmehlvl

Senior Member

08-25-2012

every buff you give to AP ezreal your giving itt also to AD ezreal

AD ezreal will usually always get trinity force

thats 30 extra AP if he used ignite thats 5

if he has baron thats extra 45 (pretty sure) thats a total of 80 AP for AD ezreal. 35 with out baron.

giving magic pen to his passive will also buff AD ezreal because his ultimate does magic dmg.

AP ezreal will never be a rank worthy pick just a fun build. you have to face that. he was always meant to be a AD. riot wont rework him into a AP.

Riot can not balance all champions base off of there *fun* builds either.

they ruin AP mf/AP trynd but they had to, there was no other way to buff them.


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Malloreon

Senior Member

08-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by getonmehlvl View Post
every buff you give to AP ezreal your giving itt also to AD ezreal

AD ezreal will usually always get trinity force

thats 30 extra AP if he used ignite thats 5

if he has baron thats extra 45 (pretty sure) thats a total of 80 AP for AD ezreal. 35 with out baron.

giving magic pen to his passive will also buff AD ezreal because his ultimate does magic dmg.

AP ezreal will never be a rank worthy pick just a fun build. you have to face that. he was always meant to be a AD. riot wont rework him into a AP.

Riot can not balance all champions base off of there *fun* builds either.

they ruin AP mf/AP trynd but they had to, there was no other way to buff them.
I'm pretty sure Ezreal was released as a mage, not as an AD Carry.


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B1AZE L0RD

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Member

08-25-2012

they hardly increase the ratio and make his W so much harder to hit, ap ezreal was hardly viable to begin with, every ap can blow at least 3 mions with 1 skill, he has no AoE farming other than his ult(which you obviously wouldn't use on minions). maybe they could give his Q a decent ap ratio, so it is kinda useful as ap ezreal.


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TalLavi

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Senior Member

08-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by getonmehlvl View Post
every buff you give to AP ezreal your giving itt also to AD ezreal

AD ezreal will usually always get trinity force

thats 30 extra AP if he used ignite thats 5

if he has baron thats extra 45 (pretty sure) thats a total of 80 AP for AD ezreal. 35 with out baron.

giving magic pen to his passive will also buff AD ezreal because his ultimate does magic dmg.

AP ezreal will never be a rank worthy pick just a fun build. you have to face that. he was always meant to be a AD. riot wont rework him into a AP.

Riot can not balance all champions base off of there *fun* builds either.

they ruin AP mf/AP trynd but they had to, there was no other way to buff them.
So lets say AD Ez has 80AP, big freaking deal? that barely adds any damage to his skills with ratio's of 0.7 and 0.75.

M.Pen to his passive will only promote smarter play of AD Ezreal instead of just shooting the ulti in a team fight to get 5stacks you can also start with some E+Q+W combo so you can maximize the ulti damage rather then the just throw it so I can get my stacks.
Also at late game people will be really tanky, to the point that it wont really matter, its not like the passive will add 100M.Pen. Something along the lines of 2 per stack at low level, 3 per stack at higher level and 4 per stack at max level.

AP Ezreal CAN be a rank worthy pick if he will get a little bit of love, its closed minded people like you who dismiss builds like that that prevent him from being viable.


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TalLavi

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Senior Member

08-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloreon View Post
I'm pretty sure Ezreal was released as a mage, not as an AD Carry.
This.
Also if they wanted him to be an ADC only they would give him very low AP Ratio on his other skills and not huge AP Ratio on 3 of them an a small one one Q


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getonmehlvl

Senior Member

08-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloreon View Post
I'm pretty sure Ezreal was released as a mage, not as an AD Carry.
During the champion spotlight phreak even said *never underestimate the power of a Ad carry healer* something like that. that was in his FIRST champion spotlight

he was also built AD

he also has a 50% AS passive


he was never meant to be a AP caster

If hes viable both in AP and as a AD he would be cleary OP


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