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Dissecting the reasons why they don't want to give us a boot option.

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Bromoner

Senior Member

08-24-2012

Hi there. I would like to discuss the boot option that we want implemented and RIOT's reasoning as to not give it to us. Before we start, a couple things about me that should be put into consideration:

-I'm in the 1000 ELO bracket (so I am by no means a pro)
-I like to watch the pros play and adapt my strategies arround them
-I do rage as much as any other player at trolls (who doesnt). So 1 in 10 trolls, I just let go of common sense and rage.
-I took the time to learn all positions, get all the runes, get appropriate champs and counter champs to be an asset to the team

With that being said, there are many individuals who are just frustrating. This isn't anecdotal evidence. Many of us know of the insta-lockers who have the "my way or the highway" attitude. That's fine, the team can adapt and move on... often times with disastrous results, but thats another issue alltogether. The problem arises when that person locks heads with a similar individual or when he is further down the line of the champ select tree. You would get a team that is unbalanced and has very little chance to win. Fine, we know this, we heard about it, we have lived it.

So why should we pay the price? We lose the follow things:

-Time (30 mins to 90). If you dodge, you lose time, if you dont, you lose time+another game to get back the elo you lost. Either way, we lose for being positive players within the community.
-Sanity. This one is hard to pin down, but we all feel griefed and our nerves are shot for the next hour, no matter what happens.
-Expertise. If you force a player to play top and he admits he has no skills at the position (hur dur, you should know all positions, well get over it, we are in this situation NOW), you are essentially fighting a 4.5v5 battle. You can cry feeding, but the gentleman has NO skills at the position all because someone is being selfrighteous by saying "i can carry mid, stfu".
-Community wellbeing. It is degrading to not be able to deal with trolls swiftly. Do you honestly think they care if they get banned? No. Their purpose is to get a laugh off. That's it. It's not to win, it's to cause you harm.
-IP. That's right. If I dodge to save my ELO, I lose IP or rather, IP I could be making. Meanwhile, the troll makes more IP. Is that fair?


We ask for this boot option for one reason and ONE reason alone, this logic:

Preventive>Reactive

That means, preventing a horrid game from happening is better then reporting afterwards. If the person does get banned... why should he care? If anything, he will make a new account, new email, new ip, w/e and come back again with MORE rage and LESS to lose from trolling. The tribunal, while a fine tool, only helps the community, not the individual players.

Now, let's dissect the arguements given:

Quote:
It has been explained by Riot Lyte before why such system would not work. I will give few examples and scenarios for your consideration, if such voting system exists:

1) In ranked match, a team could artificially use the voting system to selectively match make with team that they perceived to be weaker, or to use the system to give them an “edge” in match making. Some examples are: “the other side banned my favorite champion, let’s use the vote system to queue dodge” or “they picked my best champion, let’s use the vote system to queue dodge”, “the other side got some high elo players, let’s dodge use the vote system”.


So make it available to the elo hell bracket only. Make it available to 0-1500. If a troll is really commited, he wont be able to consistently troll because then he will lose enough ELO to go back down. Make the voting system require 4 votes yes to boot a player (duos count as one vote and would only need 3 votes to boot them BOTH). Make this available to ranked ONLY where we dont know who the opposing players are.

Quote:
2) In regions that are with culturally, racially, religiously or linguistically diverse population, this system may enable a form of discrimination. A majority can vote kick a player who is not from their country, do not speak their language, do not believe in their religion, or do not belong to the same race. Think about our EU servers, how many countries falls under the EU server region?


This does not address the North American problem. And don't say "well that's preferencial treatment to another region", other regions have different options as well. In Korea, they get a 20% IP boost and all champions available for playing at a certain netcafe. But even then, you want to play a game where you are called a "N*****" every 5 minutes? I would rather be booted, then play with those types.

Quote:
3) There is a concern for voting percentage. A 4 man SR premade could kick any one they want regardless if the 5th person is a troll or not. This is especially true in regions where ranked team does not exist, and “premade” still exist. Same concept applies to ranked TT, a premade can out-vote the third player with impunity.


Make it available to solo and duo ranked Queue only. Duos get 1 vote together. You vote to kick one duo, you kick them both (this would also help clean up the community as one partner who is kicked for being polite might rag on his partner for being a ****** which would self discipline the community).

Quote:
4) There is also a concern that this system’s operational effectiveness is limited. Trolls are not dumb, once they found out such system exist, they will just be “nice” during champion selection and start trolling right afterwards.


But this would deal with the INITIAL problem posed by trolls: team composition. If they act nice and we all fill out the necessary roles, then that's fine.

Quote:
5) Time limit on champion select. If we start a vote on one side, and let’s say each person have 10 seconds to press “vote” button. That’s 50 seconds per side for a SR game without any other champion select functionalities getting triggered. The whole champion selection process could take much longer than the current system. This will affect player experience (since many consider the ranked champion selection process is too long already)


Then just add 10 seconds more at the end timer, when everyone is "locked in" and make the boot vote last 20 seconds as well as pulling the game up to the main screen when a vote happens (like when its your turn to pick a champ and you are alt+tabbed)



As it stands now, the trollee pays the price. If RIOT thinks that trolls pay a price, think again, they just make a new account and troll once more a month later but with no runes and less to lose.

Edit: In order to show you the magnitude of this problem and how it would help better the community, I will count the number of times I had to dodge for seven days. The dodges will be chronicled (and are in elo hell) as well as be given reasons. This post will be updated to show the issues:

Day1:
-1 Dodge due to 4 adc. (I was the support)
-1 dodge due to having no tanks and a kayle that insisted on jungling vs 4 tanky champs when the rest of the team begged her to go something tanky (whch she had agreed to do prior to this encounter but then saying "lol, **** if i care what the team wants" out of the blu).
-Total time lost: 90 minutes.


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Kethar

Member

08-24-2012

this is one of the best ideas i have heard from anyone yet.i agree you almost completely.(maybe a few minor details here and there but those don't matter)im also stuck in the 1k elo range and this is the butter zone for this type of situation to happen.we have the trolls who are making their way down the elo range.and those like us who are trying to pull ourselves out of the elo hell.It would my experience playing this game much better if this came into play.


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The Best Olaf NA

Senior Member

08-25-2012

this is the one reason that just wrecks your house of cards. Just because a player trolls multiple times, and all that jazz even in lobby, Does not mean that they will 100 percent of the time be exactly what they were in the lobby, all of this preventative stuff is based off of an assumption.

when an individual says 1 thing that doesn't mean that they will 100 percent of the time do what they say. When you boot someone from the queue that also takes away time from being in queue and on top of all of that you can also abuse this feature very easily.

All of this is why there is a report function within the game, it's because no person will always do the same actions in game as their past games. Thats simply just how unique each of your games that you play are. So that being said when a player does do these toxic actions though it hints at possible toxicity within the coming game you cannot say without a doubt that they will be toxic because you're assuming them to be toxic, this is why a surrender vote needs to be at 70 percent instead of majority, which would be 3/2.

Elo hell exists in all elo's including high elo. Essentially elo hell is when a player isn't doing what the average player of your elo does. He should be lower elo, that being said all players who are like this are of all elo shapes and sizes.

A major flaw in your make duo's 1 vote would be in TT there would only be 2 votes and no one could be kicked. Even if the odd man out really was a troll

Your 2nd dodge was pointless, you can never know for a fact that you will lose a game, you can have a hunch but again you're basing all of this off of assumptions made in the pre game lobby which thats not how this system works, it doesn't work when you assume something, thats why you report people after the fact, if i just read your post about how you're in elo hell i could just report you for being unskilled player because im assuming that you are a bad player because you have a low elo, this is the thinking that im talking about and it makes very bad assumptions towards all players.


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