(Champion Remake) Heimerdinger, the Revered Inventor

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ItemsGuy

Senior Member

08-23-2012

With this remake, I'm fixing Heimerdinger's main problems:

-Fairly generic "bunch of damaging abilities and some utility" kit aside from his iconic turrets, which take a back seat to his other abilities in terms of both utility, damage, and relevance.

-Does too much damage on his own, which is inconsistent with his "engineer/inventor" theme--more or less the equivalent of giving the Engineer in TF2 a weaker turret, removing his other structures, and giving him a rocket launcher.

-Incoherent kit--Heimer isn't sure what he wants to do--poke really hard and do AoE magic damage in bursts, or have a strong foundation with structures (ie. his turrets).

*New Resource*: Scrap. I have a policy of not creating new resources unless it's absolutely necessary to the champ's playstyle and makes immediate sense (ie. you don't have to read the tooltip to get even a basic understanding of it). Heimerdinger stores 1 unit of scrap every second and an additional 20 for every six nearby enemy minion deaths or every 1 nearby enemy champion death. Heimerdinger can store up to 100 units of Scrap.

ABILITIES:

Innate: Salvage
-Heimerdinger acquires 1 unit of scrap every second, and an additional 20 for every 6 nearby enemy minion deaths or 1 enemy champion death.
(Not only does this help circumvent the ridiculous cooldown on his turrets while balancing it out in terms of utility in regards to his other abilities and making structure placement more deliberate, but also helps him have a strong push/siege playstyle, which is what he was originally based around but fell flat on.)

Q: H-30G Evolution Turret
-Heimer places a turret (up to 3) with 100 ammo (refilling ammo costs 1 scrap per 5 ammo and is done by touching the turret), 260 + (32.5xlevel) health and 50% of Heimerdinger's total armor and MR that fires at enemies within range (prioritizes champions), dealing 40/70/100/130/160 + (40% AP) per shot. Turrets gain 10% bonus attack speed per rank, and evolve immediately after Heimer ranks up the ability. Turret rank is now reflected by appearance (with his current turret model being his Rank 1 turret). Turrets cannot be placed within 400 units of each other. (Turrets have 1.25 base attack speed)
Range: 260 (placement), 550 (attack range), 625 (sight diameter)
Targeting Type: Skill Shot (placement)
Cooldown: 1 second
Base: Medium
Scaling: Medium
Cost: 25 scrap
(Heimer's iconic ability, now his bread-and-butter and main source of damage output. Health scaling has been adjusted to allow them to take more than one hit from an AD carry late-game, while damage output has been leveled out and the Mpen and AoE have been removed altogether, balancing out their new bulkiness and generally giving them more presence throughout the game. Damage, health, and range, and additional turret now balanced out by the fact that you can no longer stack them on top of each other, and are now encouraged to place them more deliberately and tactically.)

W: Techmaturgical Repair Bot
-Heimer places a stationary Repair Bot (up to 3) with 260 + (16xlevel) health and 50% of Heimer's total armor and MR on the ground that heals nearby units for 5/10/15/20/25 + (16% AP) each second and restores 1 ammo to nearby turrets each second. Repair Bots cannot be placed within 400 units of each other. Repair Bots increase the armor and MR of turrets within healing range by 100%.
Range: 300 (placement), 800 (heal radius)
Targeting Type: Skill Shot (placement)
Cooldown: 1 second
Base: Medium
Scaling: Low
Cost: 25 scrap
(Helps solidify his seige-based playstyle while further increasing his dependence on his structures, both decreasing his staying power and not leaving much room for mobility--ie. forcing Heimerdinger to stay close to his inventions due to them holding almost all of his offense and defense. Now allows Heimerdinger to also be played as a support, if Techmaturgical Repair Bot is maxed first--further increasing his options past "arbitrary magic damage dealer.")

E: Overtime
-(passive) Heimer stores an additional .5/1/1.5/2/2.5/3 units of Scrap each second.
-(active) Heimer increases the effectiveness of one of his machines by 10/20/30/40/50% for 5 seconds.
Range: 550 units
Targeting Type: Targeted
Cooldown: 1 second
Base: None
Scaling: None
Cost: 25 scrap
(Helps Heimerdinger scale into a faster-paced lategame, making his reliance on his inventions just a playstyle, as opposed to a disadvantage. Can be specced into early in mid if you want to forego the healing brought by Techmaturgical Repair Bot in mid, or forego the damage of his turrets when supporting bot.)

R: PAT-2 Escort Bot
-Heimer sets up an Escort Bot with 300/600/900 health and half of Heimer's armor and MR that follows him around with a 300 distance leash. Escort Bot deals 50/100/150 + (25% AP) magic damage to melee targets with 1.0 attack speed, and 50/100/150 + (25% AP) magic damage to ranged targets with 1.0 attack speed (both ranged and melee attacks can be used simultaneously). If there are more than 300 units between the Escort Bot and Heimerdinger, the Escort Bot will explode (Escort Bot will only move past leash range if either Heimerdinger or it are displaced--ie. follows with Flash, etc.)
Range: 300 units (cast), 125 units (melee attack), 300 units (ranged attack)
Targeting Type: Skill Shot (placement)
Cooldown: 1 second
Base: Medium
Scaling: Medium
Cost: 100 scrap
(Gives Heimer some leeway in terms of mobility--at a 100 scrap cost--while still keeping his reliance on structures. Escort Bot's health, damage, and generally availability are countered by the fact that it can be instantly destroyed with a taunt, knockback, or pull. Entirely different from Annie's Tibbers in terms of function, due to its complete lack of summon damage--which was the brunt of Tibbers' effectiveness--and greater focus on upkeep and reliable damage, as well as dealing more damage to enemies the closer they try to get to Heimer.)

Starting Items: Amplifying tome + health pot (mid, top), Regrowth Pendant + ward (bot)
Finished Suggested Build: Sorc's Shoes, Rabadon's, Rylai's, Will of the Ancients, Void Staff, Hourglass

Overview: Heimerdinger has gone from "strong poker with multi-target burst damage and I guess he has some turrets but they die pretty quickly and don't have much presence aside from pushing his lane" to "little inventor/engineer dude who is heavily reliant on the inventions he engineers," and turns his vague poke-n'-prod playstyle into a fully-defined and fleshed-out siege playstyle that's unique to Heimerdinger and the type of character he is. Helps with clarity in that "this guy sets up machines" is more coherent and immediately understandable than "this guy throws this thing (???) that explodes and sometimes stuns me and also shoots rockets at different targets how does he choose them," which also ties in more with his theme and appearance, and can be understood at least in terms of function without having to read and memorize his tooltips (which has to be done with his rockets and grenade).

STATISTICS:

Health- 350 (+75/lvl)
Health Regen- 4.5 (+0.55/lvl)
Mana- 0 (+0/lvl)
Mana Regen- 7.0 (+0.65/lvl)
Range- 550
Attack Damage- 49.24 (+3/lvl)
Attack Speed- 0.625 (+1.21%/lvl)
Armor- 7 (+3/lvl)
Magic Res- 30
Movespeed- 300

(Unchanged--basically ripped this straight from the wiki, as Heim's stats aren't problematic, rather the direction Riot took when designing his abilities)


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Jaykoboy

Senior Member

08-23-2012

I don't like the ammo on his turrets, simply because one of the ideas of his turrets is 'build them, leave them, win.'


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ItemsGuy

Senior Member

08-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaykoboy View Post
I don't like the ammo on his turrets, simply because one of the ideas of his turrets is 'build them, leave them, win.'
First of all, there is no such thing as "build them, leave them, win" with Heimer's current turrets because A) they are fairly weak (especially on their own) and can even be easily killed by minion waves do to their pitiful health and general bugginess and are really only effective for 1 minion wave--after that, enemy minions are out of range and the turret's just sitting there like a chump. Even if you're placing them to fortify the side-lanes (an option now properly available to the reworked Heimerdinger--wherein you can either choose to spread out your turrets a little, a lot, or not at all), the only time they'll be active is when an enemy champ is pushing--and even then, they'll be killed right away due to their lack of defenses and piss-poor damage output.

With the new ammo system, this now becomes a proper "set turret and bot, leave them to take care of business," while preventing Heimer from being too omnipresent (ie. not being forced to put his Repair Bots next to his turrets).

And like I said, Heimer's playstyle right now is far from "place them, leave them, win." The only real use his turrets have is for taking blue so you can spam missiles (which you are supposed to max, oddly enough, because they are your only edge in lane--grenade is nigh-useless until lategame and unreliable at best), force your opponent out of lane, and then go straight for their tower so you can push down as many other towers as possible before you hit the 30 minute mark, where Heimerdinger loses all relevance.


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LightningAcorns

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Senior Member

08-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaykoboy View Post
I don't like the ammo on his turrets, simply because one of the ideas of his turrets is 'build them, leave them, win.'
If you were to look at a recent leak at a tentative Heimerdinger remake by Xypherous, you'll see ItemsGuy actually took some liberty from it to make Salvage and the Evo Turrets now having ammo that can be refilled (except Scrap is now a resource instead of a mana refill). While Riot's tentative remake does fix a lot of these problems with Heim's viability, I think Heim having more of a focus on his little bots than his homemade weapons makes sense for a change.
Also, as a Heimerdinger player, his turrets don't work like that. In fact, the most optimal option is to have one in your lane to keep their Brand/Ahri/whoever off you (coupled with rockets) and one in the brush as a free ward. If you leave your turrets and go to another lane, they'll do nothing but keep the lane frozen for one wave but most likely die in the second because they're made of papier mache. And when it does come time to fight, you place one in a nearby brush where they'll likely move to when retreating or catching up to you. But even as a signature spell, they're just embarrassingly flimsy and don't deal much damage unless your enemy is just plain ignoring them.


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GenocidalPanda

Junior Member

08-24-2012

I liked everything about this o:


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ItemsGuy

Senior Member

08-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by GenocidalPanda View Post
I liked everything about this o:
Thanks! Is there any particular reason why? Please, elaborate on your thoughts!

Also, I suggest you say "Yes" to the terms & agreement thing here so your posts don't show up all grey and such! People have a tendency to completely read over grey posts--they're so hard to see!


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Bog Gobin

Recruiter

08-24-2012

I tried him and didn't like him. Redo him please


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ItemsGuy

Senior Member

08-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Blawnzed Elf View Post
I tried him and didn't like him. Redo him please
That's the plan, my good man.

What exactly didn't you like about him? This rework is only tentative and based off of the flaws I (one person) saw in his design, and it would be useful to know what other peoples' impressions were about him so I can make sure I'm not just going completely off the wagon.


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ploki122

Senior Member

08-24-2012

Right now I really feel like he lacks the "now" feeling... Imo, heimerdinger is an inventor, not a builder... That's why I really felt his missile/bomb fitted his theme. Right now you warped him into a Bob the Builder theme... all he do is build and walk.

He has towers that costs 25% max scrap and deal damage (with little to no bonus to ranking up) and need to be refilled every now and then
He has towers that costs 25% max scrap and heal/regen ammos/fortify nearby towers while also healing overtime nearby champions
He has an ability that costs 25% max scrap and simply boost every other towers for a little while
He has an ability that costs 100% max scrap and deals damage and moves around but explode if you blunder...

So basically, he can use up to 275 scraps for 1 rotation (or, said in a simpler way, requires to wait up to 275s to have everything laid out), and if he is ganked, he must hope he has some scraps remaining because once you kill his turrets, he's done for...

Right now, I feel the skill cap is way too high for the little power/gameplay he has to offer.

Things I didn't like :
- No more variety... you only build towers...

What I did like :
- Towers with ammo so you can't simply farm wraiths while afk.
- Repair bots with a physical state (also they became actually useful)


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ItemsGuy

Senior Member

08-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ploki122 View Post
Right now I really feel like he lacks the "now" feeling... Imo, heimerdinger is an inventor, not a builder... That's why I really felt his missile/bomb fitted his theme. Right now you warped him into a Bob the Builder theme... all he do is build and walk.
I understand what you're saying, but the "now" feeling is really just "standard mage damage-dealing spells" with a rocket/grenade skin slapped over it (just as a lot of Brand's abilities were just "standard mage damage-dealing spells and some utility" which was rectified in his remake). The only reason they're "inventions" are because the tooltip says they are, otherwise, rockets just feel like "press button, deal damage" (and hardly feel like rockets), and grenades feel like "Galio's Q but slightly different" (ie. nothing grenade-like about it except for the fact that it deals damage in an AoE). It's generally not coherent, and doesn't really fit his theme. In his lore, he's a world-renowned inventor--it's only fitting that his inventions would be showcased more.

Quote:
He has towers that costs 25% max scrap and deal damage (with little to no bonus to ranking up) and need to be refilled every now and then
He has towers that costs 25% max scrap and heal/regen ammos/fortify nearby towers while also healing overtime nearby champions
He has an ability that costs 25% max scrap and simply boost every other towers for a little while
He has an ability that costs 100% max scrap and deals damage and moves around but explode if you blunder...
Yes, I'm glad to know you at least read part of the tooltips (if not completely ignoring the overview underneath each ability).

Quote:
So basically, he can use up to 275 scraps for 1 rotation (or, said in a simpler way, requires to wait up to 275s to have everything laid out), and if he is ganked, he must hope he has some scraps remaining because once you kill his turrets, he's done for...
There. You said that word. "Rotation." That's what I'm trying to get rid of with Heimer, here--he's not about throwing spells willy-nilly like literally every other mage in League, he's about setting up your structures strategically--so you'll have something to rely on, not just something you throw down because it's a spell you have. The new resource/Innate make it so that Heim has to be more strategic and deliberate with his abilities--if a Heimer can set up turrets in advance and correctly predict or be prepared for a situation, while also having his ult up in the meantime since it has no time limit, he can easily go to his triad of turrets and Overtime each one, increasing their damage output by 50%, meaning he is rewarded for being prepared, as opposed to just pressing buttons and landing a skillshot. It changes Heimer's playstyle from "mage #X" to "Revered Inventor."

Quote:
Right now, I feel the skill cap is way too high for the little power/gameplay he has to offer.
At a full build (~600 AP), one of his turrets will be dealing 400 base magic damage per attack--that's 600 DPS without Overtime, and 800 DPS with overtime--and that's just one turret. His PAT-2 Escort Bot will be dealing an additional 300 base magic DPS to ranged targets and 600 base magic DPS to melee targets (that's 450 MDPS and 900 MDPS with Overtime, respectively). Gameplay-wise, he's now more of a Chessmaster (like what they tried to do with Zyra before she became TWO SEEDS BLOW THE REST OF MY ABILITIES and the focus from her plants went from "core of her gameplay" to "gimmick for a bit more damage" ie. what happened to Yorick's ghouls etc.), focusing more on intellectual decision making and relying on a core playstyle, as opposed to "arbitrarily deal magic damage in bursts by aiming and/or pressing buttons."

Quote:
Things I didn't like :
- No more variety... you only build towers...
A well designed kit isn't so much "a large variety of things you can do," but "a concise playstyle that is also thematically relevant to the character (especially appearance-wise)." And even then, Heim's old kit didn't have much variety--you could either slap down your nigh-useless turrets and push whenever you have blue, or poke your opponents by pressing buttons whenever you have blue. What Heimer could do in terms of being played (ie. options) was incredibly limited, and he wasn't particularly effective at anything aside from getting blue buff by himself and pushing down lanes until 30 minutes in, where he became irrelevant and paled in comparison to every other AP carry out there (yes, even Twisted Fate, since he at least has a reliable stun and gains total map awareness about once per minute--he also pushed harder due to his low cooldown AoE and Lich Bane).

Quote:
What I did like :
- Towers with ammo so you can't simply farm wraiths while afk.
- Repair bots with a physical state (also they became actually useful)
Heimer, as he currently stands, can't really farm wraiths while AFK either because his turrets are really flimsy and don't regenerate health--also, the small bit of bonus gold he'd get from doing that (which can easily be done and in less time with his grenade and rockets) isn't nearly worth as much as the free ward and slight harass discouragement he gets by placing them in his lane. He also now has the option of being played as a support in lane (although his finished build would be about the same), as well as the options of which areas to fortify and how.


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